Sunil Jindal Podcast Transcript

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Sunil Jindal: [00:00:00] Personally, I don't think I made the most out of my university experience. I need to learn, and I am very interested in entrepreneurship and startups. I basically started working as a customer success intern and that was my way into the startup world. So our goal is to become a replacement for a personal trainer, right?

Sunil Jindal: We work with a lot of well-known professional athletes, so we have like Alistair Kirk, Katya Jones from Strictly Come  dancing. We have a few Olympians as well.

Amardeep Parmar: And we're live. Today. I'm sitting with Sunil Jindal, who's a co-founder of Magic. It's an AI personal trainer for your home. If you're joining us for the first time, we're the Bay HQ, and I'm Amar. We're all about supporting British Asians to achieve their dreams. If you watch something on YouTube, make sure you hit that subscribe button and leave us a five star review

Amardeep Parmar: if you enjoy this episode. So let's dive in straight away. When you were growing up Sunil, what did you want to be like? What were your dreams?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah, so, uh, good question. So, when I was, uh, sort of very young, I took up cricket, thanks to my dad. He was [00:01:00] sort of very passionate about the sport and because of that I got, you know, very heavily involved myself.

Sunil Jindal: And I was quite fortunate to play Cricket Thoracic as a kid as I was growing up. And that sort of, helped me to realize, you know, what I'm capable of and that I can do, you know, some really awesome things in my life. And that was really the, the sort of starting point, you know, I started playing a lot of table tennis as a kid as well.

Sunil Jindal: I got involved with entrepreneurship at school. We used to do things like selling hoodies on eBay, random things like this, selling suites in the classroom. All, all sorts of random things. And this, you know, kind of made me really passionate about entrepreneurship and just pushing myself in general.

Amardeep Parmar: and then you went and studied physics, right?

Amardeep Parmar: Like what made you choose physics if you're thinking about maybe starting your own business one day? 

Sunil Jindal: Yeah. To be honest, when I was at school, I wasn't too sure what I wanted to study at university. I also didn't really know if I wanted to go to university. I think the narrative when you're at school is that you go to university, you know you get a good job and.

Sunil Jindal: There's no other options that anyone [00:02:00] tells you about. I, you know, I, I thought about this, you know, should I go to university? But I didn't really know anybody else who, who hadn't gone to uni. I didn't know, you know, kind of what the options were. So I just decided to go to university and I did not know what I wanted to study.

Sunil Jindal: You know, like I, I had an interest in entrepreneurship, but I also suppose I wasn't like a hundred percent sure, you know, if I wanted to go down that route and what sort of, what that would involve. So, one of my good friends was actually studying physics and had very good sort of physics teachers at school as well.

Sunil Jindal: So I was very, you know, I was quite passionate about the topic, I suppose, but I wouldn't say I was like super passionate. I also, I, I didn't know about Imperial College as well, which is the university I ended up at. It was actually one of my friends, I was in the library one day. He sort of mentioned to me that I should apply to Imperial and I was like, oh, what's that?

Sunil Jindal: And uh, he's like, oh, it's like, You know, really good university. So I ended up applying and I, I got into Imperial. I ended up studying physics and yeah, that kind of like, you know, led to where I am now after, you know, a sort of series of steps in between. 

Amardeep Parmar:So when you're at  university as well, did you try to keep up the dream of maybe playing professional sport as well, or [00:03:00] did you put down the back burner?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah, so I, I played cricket when I was, or played cricket for ICS when I was about 12 and. I, I, I sort of like exams, I suppose, like GCSE started to get in the way and I kind of stopped playing, uh, cricket as much. I also used to play a lot of table tennis, which is actually my main sport at the moment.

Sunil Jindal: So my, my current goal is actually to become top 100 in England, which is another story, but I carried on playing table tennis, I think. Like when you do, you know, sort of study your work, it's important to have other things alongside that, to, you know, to sort of, I suppose to, to kind of work alongside it, right?

Sunil Jindal: You need a way to vent your stress, um, but also to take your mind off your work.

Amardeep Parmar: So when you're Imperial, then when was the first seeds of like going to startup world as opposed to maybe more traditional path that you've seen other people take?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah, so I was, again, very fortunate at university 'cause in my first year when I was in, in Halls, there's a friend of mine, Hakeem Javaid, who used to basically live opposite me.

Sunil Jindal: And he was very much into, you know, building businesses and [00:04:00] he'd worked on a few projects before, uh, very, you know, sort of inspiring person, a very, very good friend and he was part of the entrepreneur society at university and he encouraged me to basically join this entrepreneur, uh, weekend where you go in or startup weekend rather, where you go and you pitch an idea, form a team and build a business.

Sunil Jindal: And I had a very tough time in my second year trying to find a flat. Finding a flat in London is super difficult and. I had this idea basically around, um, building like a review system for, for properties. And I pitched this idea the, uh, startup weekend and I managed to form a really, really good team. And we had just such an awesome time that weekend.

Sunil Jindal: The business didn't go anywhere. Like I still had a lot to learn in my own personal journey, but it was, it was such a, a, such a good experience. And that I think along with other things like that was definitely the kind of catalyst for me, you know, going on to start my own thing. 

Amardeep Parmar: It's interesting as well, 'cause I think

Amardeep Parmar: so many people, I always think I wasted some of the opportunities at a university. [00:05:00] So a university can fail and there's really no consequences of it, right? So you can join society, you can test something out, you can go to entrepreneur society and you get some of that support. But once you leave, it's a lot harder to find those kinda resources.

Amardeep Parmar: And it's also, you've got that bit of freedom at university, right? Where if you, if you fail, like you said, you just try something else. And I think maybe now is a bit harder sometimes for people when they're a bit older. 'cause they feel like if they do something's wrong then people are paying attention.

Amardeep Parmar: Which often isn't even the case. But especially if somebody's listening right now as a university. Like make use of those opportunities you've got. Right? 'cause there's a ton of free resources and opportunities out there.  

Sunil Jindal: Hundred percent. Yeah. I think that's one of the things I think about a lot and I always tell other people, like personally I don't think I made the most out of my university experience.

Sunil Jindal: Like, you know, I studied at Imperial and the sort of people that you meet there. A lot of them are doing like very incredible things right now. A lot of them are, you know, very, very smart people. And I think, you know, one of the kind of important phrases that I always think about is like your, your network is your net worth, right?

Sunil Jindal: And there are quite a few people I know from [00:06:00] university and a lot of them are doing, you know, very. Very well now, but there's also like a lot more people that I did not meet and I wish I put more effort into meeting. Imperial itself like has a ton of societies, I think more than most universities, and there's so many different things you can do.

Sunil Jindal: Like you said, I started taking up like gliding, which is kind of like flying, and I was learning how to fly like a glider plane and Imperial has or it has like a gliding society. And that's one thing, you know, amongst many others that I wish I got involved with more. So a hundred percent, like anybody who's at university now is going into university, I would definitely say make the most of the opportunities, especially because you know those three, four years or however long you are, therefore that time passes very quickly.

Amardeep Parmar: Yeah. And like what did you do once you left university? What was the first step you took?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah, so. I actually, towards the end of my time at Imperial, I started working on a couple of my own sort of projects. So again, related to sort of property. One of the things I was helping people do was to find a, a flat in London.

Sunil Jindal: So in my third year, I also had a terrible experience trying [00:07:00] to find a flat. It was actually harder than my second year, and there's plenty of stories I can tell about that. And one of the things I realized is that, you know, it's super tough for somebody like me, but I was born in London. I grew up here.

Sunil Jindal: You know, I kind of know the market, the environment, how to talk to people. But people are coming from abroad, you know, one of the problems they have is the culture can be different. They might not speak the language very, very well. A lot of 'em also, like if you're coming from, you know, other countries, I noticed that people typically come before, uh, maybe a week or two before the starting university, and they will spend that time trying to find a flight.

Sunil Jindal: They might be staying in a hotel or a friend's house. And it was stressful enough for me, so I can only imagine how stressful it's for them. So I tried to sort of help people find a flat by basically managing the search process and doing viewings. And I was actually on holiday one day in Greece with family and I was working on this business and kind of just thought, actually, you know what, like there's a lot here that I

Sunil Jindal: don't know and I need to learn. That was actually when I sort of applied for a job at Hubble. So Varun, who now is my co-founder, he's very active on social media. He [00:08:00] has been for a very long time and he was always posting about Hubble on, on Facebook. And I remember he posted one day about, uh, sort of intern role.

Sunil Jindal: At, uh, at Hubble and I thought, you know, like the company seems great and I need to learn, and I am very interested in entrepreneurship and startups. So I decided to apply and I basically started working as a customer success intern. And that was sort of my way into the startup world. It was never like the end goal, but it was kind of my, my way of getting in.

Sunil Jindal: And I spent about three months doing this role and I was very fortunate because then the founders, you know, came up to me and said, we think, you know, you'd be a good product manager for us. And they basically helped to train me up to become a PM And I got some, you know, external help as well. And uh, yeah, I became the first product manager at Hubble.

Sunil Jindal: I spent a year and a half there and it was genuinely like one of the sort of best experiences of, or best learning experiences of my life so far. 

Amardeep Parmar: And  with that role at Hubble as well, right? 'cause I think. Especially for me when I left university, right? There was no idea that I might [00:09:00] join a startup. I went like, so me and you actually went to the same school?

Amardeep Parmar: So we've got a very similar background in that way. Then I started economics at university and it was all about how do you get into the corporate world. That's all of the focus I was kind of taught about, and I think they're starting to change now. People are a bit more interested in joining startups and like you said, like do you just feel like

Amardeep Parmar: that accelerated your growth so much by being in that environment? And let's say somebody out there is maybe a bit apprehensive about joining a startup where they're early in their career, what would you, what advice would you give them or how could you encourage them to do that same path you did or open their eyes to that?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah. I suppose firstly, like a hundred percent. I, I, I totally agree. Even when I was at university, uh, the sort of typical career path was to join a corporate. And actually in my, even my first year, second and obviously third year as well. A lot of my friends were spending a lot of time applying to corporate jobs and the sort of process of applying is pretty long, you know, if you're trying to get into quite a good company.

Sunil Jindal: And then there was me, I suppose, kind of being a bit lazy, you can say, and not doing any of this. Having [00:10:00] no interest in this, no interest in this really. So I, I, I was very interested in entrepreneurship, but to be perfectly honest, I did not know kind of. You know, where I was headed. A lot of people were asking me, one of the reasons I studied physics was because physics is a very broad subject and you can go into a lot of things afterwards.

Sunil Jindal: So my, my sort of personal experience, I, I've worked in quite a few startups actually, so I've done quite a bit of like freelancing and because of that I've been able to sort of see different startups and I think I, I would not like dismiss corporate companies. I think like if I was younger, I probably would've.

Sunil Jindal: But I think you get different experiences in both environments, right? So working in a corporate, I, I know you can, you know, learn a lot of good things, but I think like, just huge credit to like the team at Hubble, when I joined, I as part of the founding team and I was the youngest in, in the company.

Sunil Jindal: Everybody there was like somebody, you know, I looked up to and I learned a lot from. So all of these people had experience, you know, either working in a corporate company or foing other [00:11:00] things. And so I basically went in, I was kind of like a, a sponge and I just absorbed a lot of things. And I was also, you know, part of this, this sort of accelerator program that we went on.

Sunil Jindal: And again, I was kind of surrounded by, um, some very sort of senior people from companies like PayPal and TransferWise who are, you know, called wise now, and because of that. Yeah. I just learn a huge amount. So I think, yeah, the advice I would give to, you know, somebody who's maybe coming outta university or even, it doesn't matter what point in your, your life you're at, but I would say, you know, if you sort of join the right startup and or the right company, like it doesn't matter if it's a startup, so long as you surround yourself with

Sunil Jindal: the right people. People who you can learn a lot from, people you look up to who treat you well, you can really accelerate your growth. I saw that, you know, when I was sort of comparing myself to my friends and you know, meeting up with them, whatever, I would see that a lot of them were, you know, especially in the corporate world working on like Excel spreadsheets or whatever, and there was me doing some like crazy awesome stuff, you know, with some crazy awesome people.

Sunil Jindal: And yeah, culture is key, right? Who you surround [00:12:00] yourself with, with is so important. Yeah, and like you said, 

Amardeep Parmar: it's like there's benefits of both paths, right? Again, corporate career or startup. But I think a lot of people will just only consider one path, and like you said, if you consider other path two, then you've got different opportunities available.

Amardeep Parmar: It also makes you, you are like, you've got less blinkered, right? You can say like, I could go down the corporate path and learn this side of thing, or I go a startup space and learn this. Having both those options on the table means that you've got much more flexibility in where you go later in life as well.

Amardeep Parmar: And you mentioned as well how you met Varun. Well, you were following Varun first, then you worked with him at Hubble and he's obviously now co-founder of Magic. How did you guys get together to start building magic? Or where did the idea come from? 

Sunil Jindal: Yeah,  it's crazy really. So I've actually known Varun from, from school.

Sunil Jindal: Varun is, you know, a little bit older than I am, but we, we, we knew each other a little bit at school. Like, you know, we didn't speak that much and it was mostly, it was mainly through Hubble where we became quite, quite good friends, you know, he hired me and I was, you know, very grateful for that and I was working very closely with him, and we, we just became, yeah, very good friends.

Sunil Jindal: You know, we [00:13:00] kind of live quite close to each other as well. And then I, when I left Hubble, I, I started working on a load of different things and I. Varun was, you know, he was still working at Hubble. I think he, he started working part-time and we started going to, you know, Westwood, Stratford like once a week just to kind of meet for lunch and just, just sort of work together.

Sunil Jindal: And he would always, like, talk about some sort of crazy idea, you know, like he's, he's very good at like, sort of, you know, coming up with, with ideas and doing his research and magic was actually his idea. So, He did, I think like he had his own sort of personal fitness journey and I've also worked a lot in fitness myself as well.

Sunil Jindal: And I remember him telling me about this sort of crazy idea, you know, that he was sort of exploring. I think he sort of, you know, took inspiration from a few different companies and also kind of his own, you know, kind of insights and, and learnings and just formed this idea of, of magic. And he started working on, you know, this sort of very kind of, basic concept and prototype.

Sunil Jindal: And I was actually in holiday, on holiday at the time in the Canary Islands. [00:14:00] So I was traveling around and I'm, I'm pretty sure I was, I'd just come out the swimming pool at the time or something and he was like, you know, I, I've got this thing I'm working on. I need your help. You know, can, can we chat and

Sunil Jindal: we started talking and he just told me that, you know, he's Selfridges have sort of reached out and, you know, asked if we can, uh, launch our product in, you know, in their store. And, you know, varun, he's a very good friend and I, you know, like I think we work well together because we have, you know, kind of different skill sets and I'm very much sort of product and tech minded, whereas he's like, you know, more sort of marketing and, and business and finance and so, I, yeah, I, I sort of, you know, came on board as a co-founder.

Sunil Jindal: We, we started working on this together. We built, you know, this product we launched in suffrages. We've also launched in, uh, in City Live in Westwood Shepherds Bush as well. And yeah, we've, we've really come a long way since, since those early days. 

Amardeep Parmar: But looking at it from the challenge perspective, right, of you had the idea, well, Varun had the idea of what Magic Mirror could do, the magic AI mirror could do.

Amardeep Parmar: How do you think about making that reality? Like what were the steps. You like did yourself, when you come on [00:15:00] board to make it go from ideation to here's something which people can now look at in Selfridges in all these different relations you mentioned. 

Sunil Jindal: Yeah, I think, I think like this kind of goes back to, to my time at Hubble, right?

Sunil Jindal: So Varun and I like, we often talk about this, we're like, you know, a lot of people do often ask that question, like, how, how do you go about starting a business? Like how do you do it? Some people have an idea and I've, I've sort of seen, you know, I've been a part of a lot of different starters and I've seen the chaos that goes on inside a lot of them.

Sunil Jindal: I'm like, you know, how are they kind of progressing? So I think one of the, the key things is, you know, having a sort of good process in place. So being, being a product manager and, you know, kind of building this product, I think one of the first things you gotta think about is prioritization, right?

Sunil Jindal: There's a million different things that, a million different features that you could, you know, sort of build for, you know, for this, this kind of product. But it's about identifying firstly, what are the, the sort of key problems you need to solve. What is the sort of M V P? What is the most basic version of this product that you can sort of launch with?

Sunil Jindal: And user research is the sort [00:16:00] of foundation of this, right? So you're building this for people. You need to understand the people, you know, how they work, what they think, how they feel. And it's really about talking to these people, which is actually what a lot of companies don't do, uh, which is super important, you know, so the starting point for the business was really understanding our market, understanding our potential users.

Sunil Jindal: So yeah, we sort of, you know, set about talking to them, understanding the pain points. And then, you know, building, you know, our M V P. So once we had a clear idea of the problems and a clear idea of the solutions, we just built this, you know, kind of basic version, which is actually the version we launched with in suffrages.

Sunil Jindal: And yeah, we got, you know, some traction from there. And after that,  just, you know, continue building more, continue learning, and just build more features. But obviously there's, there's a lot more to it as well. Right? This is just the product side. There's the whole business side of like fundraising and, you know, building your team.

Sunil Jindal: And yeah, again, it really just goes back to, to Hubble. Obviously I've learned a lot working in other places too. But I think Hubble was really kind of the, um, the [00:17:00] starting point and, you know, very kind of very important sort of part of my life to help me get to where I am now. 

Amardeep Parmar: And you mentioned as well about how you  worked for like many different startups before you came to where you are today.

Amardeep Parmar: And that obviously gives you a good way of understanding how to hire people for magic as well. So before we started recording, actually he was telling me a really good way about what he's doing, and then I was like, we're not recording yet. Save that for the podcast. So, Tell us, like how do you hire people for magic?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah, so I think like one of the, the constraints we have, right, is that we are a very small, uh, we, we are a small team, right? We're a startup. We don't have the resources of like a corporate or you know, like a, a sort of scale up. And I like being, like having a physics background. I think one of the things I've learned is to really think things through from first principles and always question, you know, our, sort of, our assumptions and the typical approach to hiring is put out a job spec, set up a load of first round calls with people, and then, you know, sort of go through the, the stages.

Sunil Jindal: Like it's kind of, you know, a typical sort of process that people follow, but [00:18:00] I actually sort of learned this quite an a few years ago when I was looking for a job myself, and I just learned a lot of stuff about the hiring process and there are a lot of biases in the hiring process and there still are, like even with my new process, which I'll, I'll talk about, but what I tend to do is I,

Sunil Jindal: I will put together like a short loom video where I will basically give more information about the role the company. When you do these first round calls, you always notice that people always ask the same questions. You talk about the same things, right? You're just wasting a lot of time and you don't have that time.

Sunil Jindal: But also energy is, well, you don't have the energy, so. I would put together this Loom video, send it across to, you know, the, the shortlisted people, the people I've shortlisted, and give them the information they need. And then I will give them a test task to do. So I'll, I'll be like, you know, this is, I'll ask myself first, you know, what is it that we're trying to, to learn or ascertain from, you know, these people to determine if they are suitable for this role.

Sunil Jindal: And I'll put together, you know, a good task or somebody in the team will, if it's. Design, I, I tend to know quite a lot about design. So when we were hiring a [00:19:00] design, I put together this, this task, I sent it across and then I will, you know, obviously evaluate this and like shortlist further. And it's only then, which to be honest, like even before like jumping on a call, I might, you know, ask a few further questions if I feel like somebody hasn't answered well enough, but I see potential in what they've said or, you know, reading their CV for your past experience and.

Sunil Jindal: I would only jump on a call with them at the very final stage when I've maybe shortlisted to like four or five people and that's when, you know, I would kind of really dig in to, you know, like finding out if they are suitable for, for this role. I think, you know, kind of being a product manager, I think user, you know, I've learned a lot from doing like user interviews and talking to people and I think I'm pretty good at like asking the right questions and really digging into, you know, kind of yeah,

Sunil Jindal: into things and. Especially when you are, you know, an early stage company, hiring the right people is super important, right? Like, it's, it's, it's key. I've sort of been part of startups where they [00:20:00] have hired people who have stayed for a few months and maybe they've been let go because they're not good enough or they've decided to move on.

Sunil Jindal: Uh, there's a lot of time and energy that gets invested into hiring. It's an, training them up. Right. It's important you sort of make good decisions when hiring, and we've seen that like we have a very good team at at Magic and it's helped us so much. Like if we didn't have these people, things would be a million times harder.

Sunil Jindal: So yeah, hopefully, hopefully that helps. But that, that's my process. 

Amardeep Parmar: How many people do you have now at Magic? Like how much as it's grown?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah, we, we we're still quite a small team, so there's about six or seven of us. Um, so I, I still remember, you know, maybe a year or so ago, just Varun and myself and when we, you know, sort of launched in suffrages, we were sort of logging the mirror through the back doors of, of the cinema in Suffrages, you know, when we were sort of setting up initially, we, we brought it over in an Uber and things have changed so much.

Sunil Jindal: We've still got a long way to go, but the, the company is in, we've progressed a lot since, since those early days

Amardeep Parmar:  And  like so Varun's obviously been on the podcast before. You mentioned how you had quite a good fundraise for your seed [00:21:00] round and that's all helping you now to scale further, what have you been using that money for now?

Amardeep Parmar: What's the progress? So Varun would've come on, I wanna say about six months ago. So I guess what's happened like in 2023? Like how have you progressed since we last heard from Varun?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah, so we have basically, uh, we've launched like an Android version of our sort of product and we, we, yeah, we've basically like added a lot more sort of exercises, a lot more tracking.

Sunil Jindal: So one of the key things that we do is when you're doing an exercise, we can basically count your reps and help correct your form. So we've kind of progressed a lot further with this. We've added in sort of more features to, to the product as well. We have like, you know, a very good team. So we've changed that design

Sunil Jindal: quite a lot. The, the app is like, it's really come a long way. I also, I dunno if you mentioned, but we also work with a lot of like well-known professional athletes. So we have like Alistair Kirk, Katya Jones from Strictly Come  dancing. We have a few Olympians as well, and these people are all producing content for our mirror.

Sunil Jindal: So when you're doing a workout on, on the mirror, [00:22:00] you are basically learning. You know, from somebody like Alistair Kirk or, or Katya Jones. And uh, yeah, we've been working really hard to sort of, you know, push, uh, push this out. 

Amardeep Parmar: And you mentioned as well, like  how a big part of your role is about user feedback, right?

Amardeep Parmar: What was some of the feedback that maybe you got in the earlier days which surprised you and led you to take the product in different directions, maybe you initially thought you would do? 

Sunil Jindal: Um, yeah, it's a good question. I, I, I dunno if there's anything that really surprised us, because I think we did do our user research

Sunil Jindal: pretty well. Like we do try to stay very close to our customers and, you know, talk to them often. I think, you know, that is sort of super crucial. We, we did have, I think like any company, like we do sort of, we, we have seen some problems with our product, which is, which is very normal. You know, things that we can improve, which every good company, you know, you should,

Sunil Jindal: should be doing. So we, we keep, you know, progressing and we do sort of push out updates every couple of weeks and sort of, you know, move forward as, as fast as we can. 

Amardeep Parmar: And then like going forwards now as well. What's the vision you've got? So obviously you are, you've been initiated, the project is getting better and better.

Amardeep Parmar: [00:23:00] You've got these huge names on board. I saw you guys at London Tech Week as well demonstrating there. What's the vision for like the company? Like where do you want about to get to?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah. So our goal is to become a replacement for a personal trainer. Right#? And I think we are definitely moving in that direction.

Sunil Jindal: There's still a lot more we can do. There's a number of like different things, you know, we, we sort of can work on. Uh, we actually went on a trip recently to the Far East just to sort of, we went to an expo just to check out what's going on out there and what we can learn. One of the sort of interesting

Sunil Jindal: kind of directions we're looking to go into is to provide kind of more guidance to the user around the sort of optimal weight for them to use. So, you know, when you have a personal trainer, they are there for accountability purposes. They, you know, kind of motivate you, which is also another thing we need to sort of, you know, do more.

Sunil Jindal: But they also, you know, help you to sort of have the correct form, which is, which is something we do, but also they will kind of set a program for you and you know, [00:24:00] kind of guide you on what weights you should you should be using, they might even spot you as well. Right? So this is kind of one of the things that we're looking to explore and we're trying to understand how we can do this using technology.

Sunil Jindal: And this for us is alongside many other things as well. But that is definitely a very interesting direction we, we could go into. But also like branching out into different modalities as well. So we focus very much on strength at the moment. There's things like yoga, there's dancing, boxing, and all of this is possible.

Sunil Jindal: It's just about having the resources and you know, the kind of time to do this. So it's a very, very interesting sort of, uh, few months ahead for us. Very interesting future. But yeah, we'll see how it goes. 

Amardeep Parmar: Is it something that you're most excited about yourself, where you can't wait for that to get to that stage?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah, I think, I think a lot of. A lot of different things. I think the weight guidance itself is something for me personally that is super interesting because I think one of the problems that that people have is kind of knowing or remembering what weight they previously used. Right. But I [00:25:00] think also perhaps more in.

Sunil Jindal: Importantly, getting those few extra reps at the end of the set, having like a spotter is, it's just so useful. And like you tend, your, your muscle tends to grow when you are struggling, right? It's not, when you're doing those first few reps, it's when you're doing the last few and it's when you're really pushing yourself.

Sunil Jindal: But like, at least from my experience, when you're doing those last few reps, there's a big difference. When you have a spotter versus having no spotter. 'cause a spotter will really help you to push yourself. And if we can sort of replicate this using technology, I think that is super interesting. But there's also other things as well.

Sunil Jindal: So, uh, we've also considered, um, exploring things like, uh, like, uh, augmented reality. Uh, so if you think about running versus playing football, right? So when you are in both activities, you might be burning the same run for calories, but when you're playing football, you tend to. Enjoy it more because you're focused much more on the competition rather than the exercise, right?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah. And one of the ideas we thought about is basically adding more [00:26:00] gamification aspects into what we do. So if you think about our device, it's basically like a big sort of forefoot. Mirror that doubles up as a screen. And imagine seeing yourself in the reflection on the mirror and overlaid with your reflection is this kind of, you know, virtual image that's seen, projected by the screen.

Sunil Jindal: Maybe a good example is like if you're doing like a shoulder press, you have some coins that, uh, sort of help to guide your, your movement so you have the right technique and you know, your focus when you're doing this is on earning those coins. It's not necessarily so much on the kind of, you know, um, the pain you're going through.

Sunil Jindal: Right. Um, I think that is like a super interesting direction we could go into, but I don't see it happening like anytime this year. But that, yeah, like if that does happen, that, that for me is like a real game changer. 

Amardeep Parmar: So what you mentioned about the weights here as well, 'cause I think when it's the final few reps, like you said, I know that my own form gets terrible then.

Amardeep Parmar: Right? But doing it with, like you said, a spot where you can see it can 'cause obviously I've tested out the product as well where it tells you when [00:27:00] your technique isn't as good. And I think it's a really interesting way of being able to know, like when you're doing, there's the last few reps. When you're pushing too far and when you're doing it to the right level.

Amardeep Parmar: Because obviously if you're doing these last few reps and the form is terrible, you're probably just gonna injured yourself. Whereas that can tell you, okay, you're still doing it a good form. You can probably do another one. And I think that's a really interesting way to be able to know is it is always like when you go to the gym, you don't really know, am I doing the right number or not?

Amardeep Parmar: You're trying to gauge in your own head, whereas obviously that can tell you, actually, you can probably do one more 'cause your last rep was really good.. And we're gonna have to move into quickfire questions now, just 'cause of time. So first one is, Who are free British Asians that you'd love to shout out that you think people should be paying attention to or listening?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah, good  question. I think first person would probably be, well, one of my, one of my brothers, so Rahul, he's like, he's still still very young. He's only 21 years old, but he's done, uh, a lot of awesome things already in his life. He's got a, a YouTube channel called Tech Force. He's, you know, had like millions of views for his videos and

Sunil Jindal: He, I always think of him [00:28:00] as like kind of a better version of me. Like he's played cricket for Essex  but for longer than I did. He's played tabletennis  for Essex again longer than I, I've played you at a high level and he's just sort of, you know, graduated from university. He's about to sort of start looking for, for a job and yeah, very sort of like interested to see like where he sort of goes in the next few years.

Sunil Jindal: He's got so much potential. And then I'd also sort of, Shout out. One of my good friends, Hakeem ve  who I mentioned earlier, like very sort of big inspiration for, for me from, you know, back at university. He's done a lot of like awesome things. And so he's part of the founding team at Blocks, which was this modular smartwatch.

Sunil Jindal: He was, you know, part of, uh, I think he was the C T O at Indie Juice, who, you know, done very well and he just works on like many, many interesting projects. He's done very well for himself. He's, yeah, like just a super, super great guy and. 

Amardeep Parmar: The next one  is, If people listening right now want to find out more about you, more about magic, where should they go to?

Sunil Jindal: Yeah, so we, we have a, a website magic. So magic fit is where you can check us out. You can also follow me on LinkedIn as well. So just feel free to search. I'm normally at the top of search results, so you should be able to find me there. 

Amardeep Parmar: And then like if people listening, may, Might be able to help you.

Amardeep Parmar: What's something that you need help with or that magic needs help with right now? 

Sunil Jindal: Yeah, I think,  I think for me personally, probably one of the big things is mentorship. So I think one thing I could be, I could do better at is sort of having people around me that I can learn from. Like I have, you know, a number of like very good friends who, you know, sort of help to guide me.

Sunil Jindal: But I think, you know, it's super important who you surround yourself with and I. I think if there's anybody out there who feels, you know, they can kind of help me or help the company, uh, you know, please do reach out. I'd love to sort of chat further. 

Amardeep Parmar:  So thanks so much for coming on. Have you got any final words for the audience?

Sunil Jindal: Uh, no. Thank you so much. I think, yeah, I just, like I said, I'm very, you know, kind of [00:30:00] grateful for, for being invited to podcasts. I think. I don't normally do a lot of podcasts. I tend to sort of speak more through my work. Um, them three words, but, uh, you know, you've had a lot of like awesome guests on this show and I, I'm very privileged to, to sort of be a part of it.

Sunil Jindal: So thank you.

Amardeep Parmar: Hello. Hello everyone. Thank you so much for listening. It makes a huge amount to us and we don't think you realize how important you are because if you subscribe to our YouTube channel, if you leave us a five star review, it makes the world of difference. And if you believe in what we're trying to do here, to inspire, connect, and guide the next generation of British Asians,

Amardeep Parmar: If you do those things, you can help us achieve that mission and you can help us make a bigger impact. And by doing that it means we can get bigger guests, we can host more events, we can do more for the community. So you can play a huge part. So thank you so much for supporting us.