Lucy Jung : 0:00I got so inspired of how you can use technology to improve quality of life. I worked in a design agency which was specializing in a medical device and that was just like click for me. It's like, oh, I'm gonna do this, I want to do this where you use technology into helping people with long-term condition. Further research led us to developing the current device Q1 that is supporting people with Parkinson's. Day-to-day they're using the device. They send us incredible messages of how much it changed their life.

‍Amardeep Parmar: 0:35

Today on the podcast, we have Lucy Jung, who's the founder and CEO of Charco. They're making a massive impact for people with Parkinson's. Lucy grew up in Korea and she was a bit of a rebel from a young age, where she did multiple different things and went into the arts with the full support of her family. A chance opportunity meant she moved to London and there she discovered her love for medical devices and the impact it could make on people. In particular she met somebody with Parkinson's who changed the impact and the trajectory of her life. She then went back to university again to study more so she could keep learning to make an impact for these people, and today she runs a company that has made an impact and has over 3,200 people using her products, which makes their life every day easier.

Amardeep Parmar: 1:23

I hope you enjoy this episode. I'm Amar from the BAE HQ and this podcast is powered by HSBC Innovation Banking. So, Lucy, you're now doing incredible work for Parkinson's, but tell me about what you were like growing up. Did you ever think one day you'd be doing what you're doing today? What was your dream?

Lucy Jung : 1:40

I actually have to say that I never imagined myself running a company. Growing up, I actually wanted to be a president, and I don't actually know where it came from, but I think it was more of like a people write down like who do you want to be? And, interesting enough, I think there was a bit of like lots of guys just wrote like president and none of the girls actually in the class would ever write it and I think I had a little bit of like what, I'm going to become a president kind of thing. So I did actually say that I'm going to become a president. But that was very much of like when I was really young, like around maybe until 12, saying like I'm going to become a president, who knows, maybe one day.

Amardeep Parmar: 2:19

One day yeah, we still got plenty of time. And then, when you're looking at growing up and going to university, what do you think about studying there, like, did that have any impact on what you were doing at your career?

Lucy Jung : 2:28

Yeah. So if I'm honest because lots of people kind of imagine like maybe she was always top of the class. However, really during my school years I was very much focused on what I wanted to do and trying to find out what I really enjoyed doing. And so very early days of middle school and high school I was really interested in hanging out with friends and I kind of realized that people always say that lots of people at the time of retiring, they always regret oh, I wish I worked more, I wish I studied more. But one thing that I thought is like I don't want to regret thinking, oh, I wish I hung out more with my friends. So I actually spent a lot of time hanging out with my friends and making friends and so on, until actually getting into high school and lots of my friends started studying, because going into the university it's quite a tough journey, so everyone started studying. So I kind of like, okay, I'll just start studying as well.

Lucy Jung : 3:31

And what happened is I actually realized I love drawing and art schools and my teacher actually said okay, Lucy, I know that you're not really interested in studying, but you should definitely go for, like, design and art and you know engineering and developing something. So I said, okay, fine. So I actually started getting into art and everything. One thing that I made a decision to go to Korea University in Korea is I went to my brother's school one day, which was Korea University, and I went there and the buildings were beautiful and then I talked to one of the students. They're saying like, oh, I'm gonna come to Korea University one day. And then they were like, yeah, of course, try, because it is a very difficult university to get into. And that just triggered something and I said, okay, fine, and then I genuinely studied a lot for about two, three years to get into university.

Amardeep Parmar: 4:20

So at that point you've studied hard to get into university now but, like you said, you were going a bit against the grain, right? So you want to be a president when everybody else did? What was the encouragement from your friends and family like at this point? Because was it a traditional path you're going down to going down the archery, or was that somewhat of a rebel?

Lucy Jung : 4:36

I think my parents and my brother, they all kind of still in the today to kind of encourage me and I think they also know that I'm going to do whatever I want to at the end of the day. I think during the middle school they tried to understand me more, so every time that if I was hanging out with friends and not studying, they would be just asking me like, have you thought about x, y, z? And instead of pushing me towards to one route, toward the other, it was almost kind of just asking why do you want to do this? And then kind of fair enough route. So I think that kind of position from the family was actually very important and in a way that really supported me to get to where I am, because as far as they understood why I'm doing this and I'm doing this because I want to, they wouldn't have stopped me.

Lucy Jung : 5:29

I think there are only two things that they stopped me doing, if I'm honest with you, if I can mention, one was bowling, and it was kind of an odd thing because the teachers were saying, oh, like Lucy seemed to be like maybe she'll be good at bowling and I just randomly thought, okay, teacher said bowling, and it was so random and my parents actually said you probably want to reconsider that because I don't really like sports. And then they were absolutely right. The other thing was actually becoming a celebrity and I thought I would want that because at that age lots of friends kind of loved that kind of becoming like K-pop stars and everything. But god, I'm glad that my parents stopped me, because I wouldn't have liked that at all. So I think that's the only time that they asked me to reconsider what you want to do, but apart from that they were very, very encouraging.

Amardeep Parmar:

And then at university, so studying arts, and you're going down that route.

Amardeep Parmar: 6:22

Did you ever have any idea in time about what you're going to actually do afterwards or what the next steps were?

Lucy Jung : 6:27

Yeah. So I really wonder what kind of motivated me. But for some reason I was always really passionate about finding out what I really wanted to do, and that is actually before even the university as well. So I found that I love drawing and I love studying actually and and then when I got to university, that continued. So now I got into university like whole world opens up. So what I did is there is university course, but then afterwards what I wanted to do is I studied, for example, cad for the engineering because I wanted to develop something. I got really into website development at one point, so I studied that.

Lucy Jung : 7:04

Initially I thought that I want to get into marketing. So I actually worked in a marketing company to actually look into is this something that I really want or not? Turns out that not really. I loved it, but I didn't see myself continuing to do this. I went to Samsung Design Membership as a product design engineer where I did product design and I did lots of projects around like a tablet and so on, which was really interesting. But I also wanted to. I kind of felt like I want to learn more. That led me into applying for one of the programs the government had where they brought three designers and sent them abroad to work in companies in US UK, and I think it was France. And I came to UK in London design agency.

Amardeep Parmar: 7:55

What made you pick London of those three?

Lucy Jung : 7:57

My friend was there, my friend was studying there, was one of my best friends and was like, oh, that sounds great. So, yeah, that was actually the reason I kind of tend to follow what I kind of feel like oh yeah, that sounds fun. And I went there and, to be fair, I was a little bit shocked because I kind of started it but I didn't know what I was getting into. So suddenly I was going abroad all by myself and I had to find a place and all of those. And I think one thing is that even though my parents could help, they didn't, because they wanted me to see if I can actually do it by myself.

Lucy Jung : 8:30

So I arrived in London and, trust me, I was like, okay, now, what do I do from here? I worked in a design agency which was specializing in a medical device one of the department that they had and I got so inspired of how you can use technology to improve quality of life for people who have long term and that was just like click for me. It's like, oh, I'm gonna do this, I want to do this where you use technology into helping people with long term condition, people who need it the most. So from then onwards, I realized that I need to learn more if I want to do that, because I did lots of product design, engineering and usability but I need to learn more. That led into okay, I'm going to have to study more. So I went to innovation design engineering course at Imperial College and Royal College of Art, so it was kind of a journey throughout the course.

Amardeep Parmar: 9:21

It's really interesting there what you said about you came to London because your friend was here, but that then led to everything you're doing today. So it's amazing how these sliding door moments try out of. You just pick that for that reason, not knowing that you're then going to work on medical devices, which leads you where you are today. And I think sometimes people forget because, like you said, some people think everything's so planned out when there's little moments like that leads to an opportunity which has sent you down this current path and going back to university again. How was that experience?

Lucy Jung : 9:47

So with the master's or for the undergraduate.

Amardeep Parmar: 9:51

At Imperial.

Lucy Jung : 9:56

Oh, at Imperial. Oh, I had so much fun at imperial and royal college vault it was a dual course and, um, because it's such a like art and science combined together, you get to do lots of fun stuff because you get to see both sides where you're really looking to making sure that the product is uh, developed with the users in mind is solving the problem, and then you get to see the science part of how is this actually going to be implemented to individuals? It's looking to technical efficacies and all of those. So I loved that experience. What I remember is that we were working crazy hours.

Lucy Jung : 10:30

I think that actually continued for decades now, but it's that much of excitement. Like every day was so fun, like working with the team, brainstorming about concepts, and one of the things that I really loved and was memorable is when we were starting workshop. We would go for who's going to come up with the most silly idea, and that actually helps you really open up that creativity. So that experience was amazing. It was a very international course as well, coming from all sorts of different backgrounds. So there were engineers, there were clinicians, there were designers, like fashion designers. So everyone coming from different country and from different background really helps you to think in an open-minded way.

Amardeep Parmar: 11:16

So yeah, the experience was amazing and even when you went back for as well, where you said that you came here and you didn't know what, like you didn't have any experience of like living in another country, and it was a big challenge there. Do you feel like that challenge has really helped you today? Like, what did you learn from just trying to integrate into the uk and learn about it? Like, how was that experience? Was it quite easy for you or is it quite hard?

Lucy Jung : 11:37

I have to say that I do get myself into something that I didn't expect, that there will be lots of hardship which I think actually relates with the startup as well but I tend to just follow things that just click to me. At that time I wanted to see outside of Korea and how things are like outside of this kind of the culture that I grew up in, everything. So I wanted to see it. So I didn't really think about, oh, what am I going to do if X, y and Z happen? I kind of tend to just do it if I feel like, oh, I need to do it for me to understand. So I kind of am brave in that sense and sometimes that like just being brave sometimes help because otherwise there are so many things that you have to worry about.

Lucy Jung : 12:26

And early days of my Sharko startup journey because it's a medical device product and you know all the regulations and trials and funds that are required I remember really early days, cambridge judge business school had this like a founder group and they were asking me Lucy, so you're doing a hardware in the medical sector, what were you thinking? And I said I wasn't really thinking that much, I just really wanted to help people with Parkinson's, and I think that kind of trying to find out, okay, what do I really want to do in my life led me here, and it also helps you get through things as well. You know it. You know it was you who wanted to do it, so no one is kind of pressuring you to do this, so it helps me to get through those hardships that you mentioned.

Amardeep Parmar: 13:09

I think it's really interesting on this podcast. Obviously we're looking at Asians in Britain, but so many of the people who've been on this podcast obviously we're looking at asians in britain, but so many of the people who've been on this podcast and done amazing startups weren't necessarily born here and part of that is to come across and live to another country takes so much guts right and having those guts to move across to another country or work in another country is also a good skill for creating a startup later on very true but you mentioned about parkinson's there and how you're so passionate about that in particular.

Amardeep Parmar: 13:36

Where did that come from? Why are you so passionate about Parkinson's?

Lucy Jung : 13:39

So initially my interest was medical technology and that is not just the hardware but it's software. It's the system as service and all kind of solution for people who have long-term conditions. I was really interested in rare conditions because I felt like not many people are interested in that so they get less support. So I actually studied multiple sclerosis. I worked in a stroke, I was studying paralysis, insensitivity to pain, so I did little projects there and Parkinson's was one of the projects that I started in 2014. Projectstar and Parkinson's was one of the projects that I started in 2014. And as a part of starting the project, I met with gentlemen with Parkinson's, as I mentioned, like it's kind of day to day for me, and I went to see him and it was my first time to meet with someone with Parkinson's. I only read from the papers and news about how, you know, it impacts their quality of life a lot. When I met him he said, Lucy, I'm very happy to see you now, but I look angry because Parkinson's took away my smile and I said, oh, like hi, but I was quite stressed because I thought he was quite angry. But once I started talking with him he was the nicest person ever and for me to think about how much of a struggle it is for this person, this gentleman, to explain to people all the time saying I'm very happy, I'm not angry. It just the problem was obvious for me that I wanted to support people with Parkinson's Parkinson's and really I'm really grateful that we were able to talk with lots of people with Parkinson's to understand their problem and need throughout their day-to-day life and from then onwards we were able to develop a pen that was really insightful and then further research led us to developing the current device, Q1, that is supporting people with Parkinson's. I was going to stay in the research area where I wanted to do master's PhD, become a professor, but when the project was successful the initial project that I did it got lots of interest from people with Parkinson's saying, okay, where can I buy this? And we responded to all of them saying we're very sorry, it was university project and I thought that was my job, Like my job was to do the research, innovate, move on.

Lucy Jung : 16:06

But I got very sick when I was quite young at that time and I suddenly had to go through medication adjustment because I was intolerant to the medication that I was able to take.

Lucy Jung : 16:19

I had to go through lots of testings that were quite painful, and then I had to go through brain surgery. And that all happened within two, three months of me going from really passionate about my project, going to research, and then suddenly in bed not knowing whether I'm going to survive or not. And at that time there was a day that I was put into full body CT scan. But while we were doing that my condition got really bad and they had to pull me out to the point that they weren't sure what to do anymore. And at that night I kind of thought if I ever get out of here, then I will go back to Parkinson's project, because research should not end as a research. If it's, it can change anyone's life, even like by one percent, even just by one step, because it is very scary. So then they actually found out what was wrong with me on that day, that overnight, and then really quickly I recovered and I came back to university to do what I'm doing now.

Amardeep Parmar: 17:31

We hope you're enjoying the episode so far. We just want to give a quick shout out to our headline HSBC Innovation Banking. One of the biggest challenges for so many startups is finding the right bank to support them, because you might start off and try to use a traditional bank, but they don't understand what you're doing. You're just talking to an AI assistant or you're talking to somebody who doesn't really understand what it is you've been trying to do.

Amardeep Parmar: 17:57

HSBC have got the team they've built out over years to make sure they understand what you're doing. They've got the deep sector expertise and they can help connect you with the right people to make your dreams come true. So if you want to learn more, check out hsbcinnovationbanking. com. It's incredible to hear that story and what you've been able to achieve since then as well. Could you tell the audience as well? So you, obviously you founded Charco and then you've had some incredible results since in your research, and it'd be good if you could just share some of those results, like just in terms of what impact you've been able to make for people with Parkinson's.

Lucy Jung : 18:24

Of course.

Lucy Jung : 18:25

So now the key one that I mentioned is a medical device that is wearable for people with Parkinson's and it sits on a sternum.

Lucy Jung : 18:34

We started by talking with one or two people, five people testing and more and more people, and now we've got 3,200 people in the UK who are using the device and we've got many, many more in community waiting for the devices and we've been scaling up with the quality to get the devices for them. We've got trials that is running with the hospitals to understand further symptoms that can be supported by the device. So it delivers focused fiber tactile stimulation combined with the cueing, and what it does is that with people with Parkinson's, they have lots of symptoms including stiffness, slowness, rigidity, and what started as wanting to support with their micrographia, which is small writing, led into actually the Q1, which delivers particular stimulation to improve with stiffness, slowness, rigidity and walking. So day to day they're using the device. They send us incredible messages of how much it changed their life and also their family members life. So it's been very um. I'm very grateful that I was able to take this journey with, together with the team.

Amardeep Parmar: 19:42

Without the team, um, it would have been possible it's about making it possible there as well, and obviously at that point, you were working in research and then now you created a company that's doing incredibly well. What was that process like? So you're now okay, we're going to create a product and we're going to go to market with this. We're going to create a company, yeah, but that's something you hadn't done before. Right, so what was that first step you took? Like, how did you make that reality?

Lucy Jung : 20:04

thank you, and I think this is actually really important, really really important point is lots of people do actually ask me so, lucy, where did you study business? And, lucy, where did you do that? Where did you do you know, like, how do you learn about parkinson's? And what I really believe in is people learning. Passionate people, motivated people, will learn.

Lucy Jung : 20:27

And, um, if I may, uh, quote one of our um, my life mentor, um from imperial college, a director called Govind. When I first met with him with the idea that I had at university when I was graduating innovation, design engineering, I showed him what we were doing and what kind of improvement that we were seeing with people with Parkinson's. And I said, govind, I think this project will change people with Parkinson's quality of life, but I don't think I'm the right person as a CEO. And then he asked me. He said, firstly, he was quite surprised because that incubator was supposed to be, you know, like, oh, like, I want to be CEO. And he asked me why. And I said I'm not interested in making lots of money, I want to change people's life. And then he said what do you think?

Lucy Jung : 21:17

Three things that is most important in your perspective as a CEO. So I said I think they need vision, the purpose of why they're doing it. And then the second thing is being responsible. You started it. And then the third is although I haven't started my business before, I can imagine that it's going to be quite difficult, so being persistent about what you're doing. I think that those are three things, and what he said is those three things are exactly what you need to not just become a good CEO, but a great CEO.

Lucy Jung : 21:52

And I stood up from that chair saying, okay, govind, if it's those three, I can do it. So from then onwards, it was all about learning. I read most of our studies around focus stimulation and the queuing in Parkinson's, because I need to know the science Initially. As you know, like founding a company means that initially, like legal investment and finance, we have to do it all. So I think if I can learn, everyone can learn is what I really want to say. I didn't start with like being a specialist in business at all, but you can learn. If your passion is there, if your purpose is there, you'll be able to learn you mentioned about the team as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 22:34

How did you get the right people involved? Like how did you get the team that you have today? Like, where did that start from?

Lucy Jung : 22:39

I I really want to say that I am incredibly, um, proud of our team members. Um, and I do get that question quite often about what you see in cv. And I say I actually see people and I hear about why do they want to join Charco? And I asked them about what do they want to do in their life? And I think I was very, very lucky and I always say this I think I've got smartest and kindest people in the world.

Lucy Jung : 23:08

Is how I say I never have to pressure them, the team members. Well, I actually have to say, like guys, we're gonna have to, like you, guys are gonna have to stop, because amount of the care that they have for people with Parkinson's is just incredible. And we have a meeting and what we would always have is at the end of the meeting, they will say, okay, this is a very difficult problem to solve, but is this best for people with Parkinson's? And when team members are talking about that, I feel like, okay, that's our team, that's the people. All I feel like what I'm doing is supporting our team members now to go out there and do incredible stuff, but I think it's because we're very much aligned with the vision and the purpose of the company, why Shocker was set up, why we're doing this, and that just motivates them and the other end of that, too.

Amardeep Parmar: 23:58

Right is that, in order to build this at the beginning, can have no revenue for a while. Right, because you've got to build the product, you've got to get it manufactured. There's so many different steps before you can start getting it out there, and a huge barrier for many people is like how do we get the funding for that? How do we get going? How did you go about that process? How did you get the initial capital to start moving?

Lucy Jung : 24:16

I would love to share. How did we get initial funding? Because initial funding is the most difficult part. Incredibly, we actually had a crowdfunding from people with Parkinson's. They raised themselves about 20k and at that 20k 20k is not 20K, it's like priceless. It's incredible message from people with Parkinson's saying, guys, go out there, please continue this, we need this.

Lucy Jung : 24:42

So that was such an incredible encouragement for us to start and then onwards, what I really want to mention is one of the advice that I got from my father from really early on is always chase the value. Think about the value that you really, early on, is. Always chase the value. Think about the value that you're working on. Never chase the money. If you follow the value, money will just follow, and it's a lesson that he will be constantly repeating to myself. And it was very true, and I'll share the story of first funding.

Lucy Jung : 25:10

We got a call and at that time it was a VC and, if I'm honest with you, we were still working on the proof of concept.

Lucy Jung : 25:20

So we were testing our device and we were getting the feedback and I got a call from a VC saying it's my first time in my whole VC it was a partner, a potential future customer calling the VC, saying you guys have to invest in this company. And later on, what I realized is that one of the gentlemen who tried out our device, who was part of the user testing, saw the benefit of the device, but not only that, it was the passion that he was able to see from our team members saying, like you guys have to invest in this company. And that actually was due diligence done and from then onwards, it was always focusing on what we're delivering and investors actually found us and throughout the journey and we were able to meet with incredible investors who are taking the journey with us, supporting us and sharing really valuable input, making introductions. More people with Parkinson's were able to give us a feedback through them as well. So, yeah, that has been our journey.

Amardeep Parmar: 26:25

So see, that helps you get that initial momentum, and for other people, I think the regulatory side must be so difficult and learning about that. How was that for you? How did you get on top of that or get your grips around that to be able to do what you've been doing today?

Lucy Jung : 26:41

so, for example, like regulations and trials and all the safety tests, everything, I think it's the matter of how you see it like. If you think regulation is a hurdle, then it becomes a painful thing to do, but the regulation I I think it's very, very important because at the end of the day, they're looking into efficacy, they're looking to safety for people with parkinson's. So I think it was just that mindset of thinking about why are we doing this? At the end of the day, it's to create a company that is complying so that we can deliver better solution for people with Parkinson's. And I think that kind of helps you stay motivated, that we should look into these guidelines so that we can make sure that we are supporting people with Parkinson's in a more quality way and obviously along this journey there's going to be different ups and downs.

Amardeep Parmar: 27:31

right and being able to do the impact you do must really help you to keep you motivated. But what have been some of the moments which there's been mistakes made or something like that which you've really learned from and you think have made you stronger, made me stronger.

Lucy Jung : 27:43

I think one of the things that I've got a kind of a cheat key to get over the hardest time running the company because, as you mentioned, the journey is lots of ups and downs and one of the things that I always do is I go back to meeting people with Parkinson's.

Lucy Jung : 28:01

So whenever it's the hardest, I remember there was one day that we had a very, very difficult day all day with the manufacturing challenges, with the component shortage we had with the COVID and everything. I opened an email at 11 o'clock at night time with this one lady talking about her husband really struggling with the gait problems and please asked if I could ever visit them. And next day I just went to them because when you go see them you kind of remind yourself of why you're doing this and that's about it, that you need that kind of oh, oh, yes, this is why I'm doing all of the things that we are doing and that just keep you going. So, if I can say, is that, out of everything, what keeps me going is people with Parkinson's and people that we are improving their quality of life.

Amardeep Parmar: 28:51

And obviously your role is changing over time as well as companies expanding as you're making a bigger, bigger impact. How has that role changed and what do you enjoy most about what you do today versus, maybe, what you did before? Like, what's the how's our journey been for you in terms of your own personal growth?

Lucy Jung : 29:06

Initially when I started that, as I mentioned, I had to kind of do everything with the founding team members, so we were doing lots of things ourselves.

Lucy Jung : 29:14

As the team grew, we've got incredible people who've got their specialties, their interests, who can do much better than I myself can do. So now I always think about what is the value that I bring into the company the most at this stage of the company. At certain stage it can be X, y and Z, and at current stage I feel like I'm the kind of a supporter for our team to do incredible things out there, constantly reminding ourselves of why we're doing this and what is actually important for the team members. But at the end of the day, the focus, for example, raising fund as well it is so that our team members can go out and do incredible things. So I believe that's my key role here to make sure that we're remembering our purpose and the value of the company and getting the team together so that finding a way to support them, motivate them and connect them. So I think that's been kind of the role change over time and being able to see bigger picture and then long-term picture as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 30:25

And then looking forward right, so you've already come so far and you made such an impact for so many different people. What's the dream going forward? It's like what's the next steps? What should people be keeping an eye out for?

Lucy Jung : 30:36

Throughout our journey we went for, you know, like pre-seed round, seed round and pre-series A rounds. The key focus changed over time. Of course, we were working on a proof of concept, we worked on the regulations and manufacturing and getting the quality there and, as I mentioned, now there's 3,200 people using the device, but there are 10 million people around the world who are suffering from Parkinson's. So our next aim is actually getting the devices to more people, creating more value, getting into the NHS for the US, getting the FDA, getting into the insurance system so that more people can have access to the intervention. So that's absolutely our goal.

Lucy Jung : 31:17

But the other thing is there are more. The reason why our current device is called Q1 and soon Q1 Plus, is because it is a reminder for the team members and also people with Parkinson's and everyone around them that this is the beginning and there will be lots more. We've got an application platform coming to support them, to track their symptoms and have a better management and give a tailored care for individual. So there's a lot that we can do. So I'm very much looking forward to that and it's very, very important for us to keep people with Parkinson's and their family members close so that we can get to constantly understanding their problems and needs and coming up with solutions.

Amardeep Parmar: 31:59

So let's say somebody five years like where you were five years ago and there's a problem that they really care about solving and they're really passionate about it. What advice would you give them?

Lucy Jung : 32:09

I would very shortly say just do it, go for it If you think what you're doing may be creating value. And I say maybe because you can't be certain, you can't be 100 when I started. We're constantly evaluating our product but if you think there's a potential that you can create a value, whether it's in environment or in the health tech and so on just do do it, give it a go. But you do need that passion. And why I want to do this?

Amardeep Parmar: 32:39

So thanks so much for sharing your story today. We're going to have to go to quickfire questions now. First quickfire question is who are three British Asians, you think are doing incredible work and you love to shout out?

Lucy Jung : 32:49

Absolutely so. I would love to mention the Asian in Tech of Lopa Patel. I think what she's doing is incredible to bring people together, and I also want to give a shout out to Shefali and Deborah. They're founders of Dotplot and what they're doing, and also their passion and motivation, just excites me, if I'm honest, and I'm really looking forward to their journey forward. I also want to give a shout out to one of my really good friend, founder Looi, and what she's been doing. It just inspires me. She's been going through lots of challenges but she can just push it through and I just want to let her know that she inspires me. What she's doing is incredible.

Amardeep Parmar: 33:27

So next question is if people want to find out more about you, more about Charco, where should they go to?

Lucy Jung : 33:35

For myself, LinkedIn is probably the best, and for Charco? Please do visit our website, www. charconeurotech. com, and you'll be able to see lots of stories and videos about us.

Amardeep Parmar: 33:44

And is there anything that audience could help you with right now? So somebody listening who's loved your episode and they want to help out. What could they do?

Lucy Jung : 33:51

What I'd say is that if you know anyone who've got Parkinson's or who have connections with Parkinson's, please refer them to Charco. What we hope that Charco can do is going through a long-term condition is a painful thing, but Charco wants to be their friends and family. So if you know anyone with Parkinson's, please do let them know. There's Charco, who will be always supporting people with Parkinson's out there.

Amardeep Parmar: 34:16

So thank you so much for coming on today. Have you got any final words?

Lucy Jung : 34:19

Not at all. I think I actually want to really thank what you're doing. I think it's incredible that you're initiating this and just being able to share the story and for people to be able to hear like you can do it. Just do it, give it a go.

Amardeep Parmar: 34:38

Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. See you next time.

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