Meet The AI Cancer Prediction Founder w/ Dr. Bea Bakshi | C the Signs

00:00
Dr. Bea Bakshi
We found like 50,000 patients with cancer through the platform.

00:03
Amardeep Parmar
That's Bea Bakshi, co founder and CEO of See the Science.

00:07
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And it was a very real experience in A and E that I had with this particular patient. So B, what are you doing about it?

00:12
Amardeep Parmar
Bea's leadership roles meant that she had the power to make things happen when she focused on cancer detection.

00:18
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And then I started working my way up within the trade unions. Then I was doing stuff on like leading terms and conditions of contract for the junior doctor contract negotiations. So I was like the deputy chair of the IT committee across like the British Medical Association.

00:32
Amardeep Parmar
She didn't set out to be a founder initially.

00:34
Dr. Bea Bakshi
We started off in the most innocent way as a free pilot. Within a month he just built a wireframe. I think what we did was that we didn't compromise speed for quality or intention for revenue.

00:48
Amardeep Parmar
Yet she realized a company was the best way to get the funding she needed to make the impact she wanted.

00:54
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And then I had a cancer charity tell me, well you need to solve this problem yourself.

00:58
Amardeep Parmar
Her work is already inspiring, but there's so much more to come.

01:01
Dr. Bea Bakshi
If you can affect one person in a positive way, that's magical. So when I was growing up I had lots of part time jobs so gave me a very good exposure to what kind of working life looks like, whether in retail or some levels of like very simple jobs in some businesses. But what I really resonated with was value driven jobs. So it became very apparent very early on that I wanted to do something that was not driven by money, not driven by profits or margins, but very much driven about what value are you creating or generating for the end personal beneficiary of that. So that could be in retail, it probably be like the, the person who's having that shopping experience, like how do we give them the best outcome.

01:46
Dr. Bea Bakshi
But a lot of that I found was driven by profit margins and sales and consumption. Whereas one of the reasons why in you've had so many doctors in your, on your podcast you probably have heard the story. But often to become a doctor in the UK at least you need to make a decision when you're like 16, right, it would achieve what A levels you're doing, etc. So for me it became really apparent really early on that just the founding story of the nhs, the fact that it was, you know, care based on need, that it was free at point of care, that it was accessible to all and that health care was a fundamental human right for me that just resonated on such a deeper and profound level because it was a value driven organization.

02:23
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Until this day, it still is a value driven organization. So for that really talked to me and you know, I played around with the idea. I think when I was really young I wanted to be an astronaut. And then I started wearing glasses and I was like, that can't work because you have to have perfect vision. I think. I don't know if it's changed now, but you know, it was just the idea of like, how do you do something that feels cool, that feels inspiring, but also is delivering value in a way that I can get up every day and feel motivated, that my profession is purposeful and intentional.

02:52
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And I think that was the kind of thing obviously, you know, I don't think my parents actually had a clear sense of what they wanted me to be, but it was very much about, you know, what I wanted myself to be in the future. Having seen obviously lots of people working in different professions and thinking what would we get? What would get me out of bed and motivated every day?

03:10
Amardeep Parmar
So that's quite a lot of deep thinking there at such young age. Where do you think that came from? Where did that value?

03:15
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Do you know, having a part time job, I think is a really great experience. I think now reflecting back and it teaches you a lot of life skills because you realize that how businesses work, how, you know, you have to keep the lights on, you have to do sales every day and things like that. And I, when I was I think like 16, I had my 15, 16, I had my first job and I was working in a shoe shop. And it was one of those things that I was very good at selling shoes and for, for people on the call who might be familiar as Faith shoes and those who are like, you know, young enough to know what face. It was a really cool footship.

03:51
Dr. Bea Bakshi
You know, they had great shoes and I just sell a lot of shoes and I was one of like the leading salespeople and you know, used to get like, and like vouchers for more shoes that you sold. If you opened credit with some of the people as well, where they take credit on doing shoes, you would also get like vouchers and things like that. So I was incentive incentivized to create, lend more debt to use this but also sell more shoes. And there was this like one flashpoint moment where this lady came in and she wanted some shoes for an outfit and she tried on some shoes that just didn't look great. It just didn't look great, didn't match the outfit, didn't suit like her figure and things like that.

04:26
Dr. Bea Bakshi
But I remember at the time like some of my other co workers and one particular was just like, I know it looks fantastic, you look fantastic, you look great. You know, and she bought the shoes and she left. And it's such an, like a, like a random not important experience. But that one moment just stayed in me to be like, you know, we win as an organization or as the retailer by selling more, not by delivering the best outcome for her or the best experience. Whether that's an expensive shoe or a cheaper shoe or no shoe or actually, you know, your existing shoes are great with that outfit. Just wear that. Right?

05:03
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And it made me realize that like a lot of industry has these perverse incentives where you can only win at the, not exploitation, but at the, you know, trade off with someone else. Like, you give me money, you give me this. And it's not the case of like, oh, you know, like how your mum might say, like, oh, you just bought a jacket like three months ago. I don't think you need a new jacket. Right? Are you ever going to get a retailer to say like, oh, I can see that you bought four jackets, you've covered all the seasons. Do you really need a jacket? Our jackets generally last like five years. Right, so you're good. Maybe, like maybe think about that.

05:34
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And it was thinking more along that lines of when I was 16, I had that experience and I wanted to be really motivated by people and by outcomes. You know, I grew up in a family where kind of values was just always talk about like, be a good person, like the concept of morality, the concept of like karma and giving back. So then it became very apparent like, okay, what organization wins when the end consumer wins. And healthcare is like the most beautiful example of that I'm directly motivated to do as much as I can to improve your outcome. And there's alignment, there's complete alignment.

06:10
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Is that when you win and you know, you meet your health goals or you help to go from type 2 diabetes and we help to reverse and manage that patients or we get your asthma under control or all the same things like I win, you win. Right. It's such a beautiful story. So it really became apparent really early on. I think I tinkered a bit with law being like, oh, I want to advocate for like human rights and things like that. But at the time I just wasn't very great at arguing so it was like, I need to cross that out. I'm just more of a science geek rather than being able to articulate myself well enough in that way.

06:43
Amardeep Parmar
So as you mentioned, there's been a lot of doctors who have been on podcast who started medicine and then transitioned away from it. And obviously once you start studying medicine and you're going for that journey, for a lot of people, especially, like I said at 16, when making that decision, you pretty much decide, I can be a doctor for the rest of my life. But obviously that's not the case anymore. So as you became a doctor, what in that journey was one fulfilling, but maybe one secondly left somewhere for you to think more about what you want to do in the future?

07:12
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Yeah, I think the biggest when considering the journey and going into medicine now coming into entrepreneurship. The fantastic thing about the nhs, and you see I'm very pro nhs, right, Is that like, it builds in you this humility, right? Because the way that when you come in as a medical student is that it's a vocation. So the first thing you're told is it doesn't really matter if you've been here for 20 years, 30 years, if you're a consultant, if you're like the biggest professor, is that the concept of learning and the concept that you will never have perfect knowledge and that you constantly need to learn is always there. So when it came to, I think when I was a third year medical student, it's the first time you go into the wards.

07:47
Dr. Bea Bakshi
I remember going on tours and seeing like, okay, we spend most of our time managing patients who are in beds and giving them medication to treat some of these ailments. That was kind of my first touch point on like, actually, could we have intercepted these patients earlier? Could we have done something differently to stop them getting their heart attack or complications of diabetes, or having, you know, really poor circulation because of this, or their arthritis or needing surgery or needing like joint replacement and things like that. And it made me see, actually, is this too late? Because now we're medicalizing this patient, things like that. And it's fantastic. We get them home, get them rehab, but what's the opportunity for prevention? And that was probably my first introduction to say, I think we could do more if we moved upstream.

08:28
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And the great thing about healthcare, and I think even before you start, you know, entrepreneurship or even, you know, go to companies house and register a company or any of that, is most doctors actually have done some change management, right? And some people call it intrapreneurship, some people Call it an audit or quality improvement. But they've gone in, they've looked at a process, they've looked at something and said, actually do you know what? That's not very good. I think I can change that. Or why don't we do it? And they've like put their head above the power pit. They've raised it, they've done it and they've seen the impact of that. They just don't recognize that they've actually been working on that level and solving those problems and making those improvements.

09:04
Dr. Bea Bakshi
So doctors are fantastic in being able to constantly do that, constantly collect data, constantly refine their own algorithms in doing that. And one of the key things that we do and that we're in, you know, is ingrained in us is really good communication, but also the idea of concept of pattern recognition to spotlight threats and things like that. The one thing we're very bad at and I sometimes is that like, you know, a C is very good. A C is like average, right? But when you're obsessed with a stars or you think that you need to get an A star all your life in order to get this, and the fact that there's a stars now I just think is like, is wow. But it means that sometimes you sacrifice good for perfection.

09:42
Dr. Bea Bakshi
I think that's the challenge with entrepreneurship is that the ability to learn and iterate sometimes gets sacrificed with the idea of going out with something perfect where you can't have something perfect in a perfect world. And the other problem is that with medicine we kind of cheat because we have all these like textbooks and research and things like that. And I'd love a playbook on entrepreneurship, but I don't think there's anything as formulaic as there is in medicine that you can entrepreneurship. So the ability to deal with uncertainty and lack of predictability is much harder, I think for us as medics. Because, you know, some things like a cardiac arrest, right, we have cardiac arrest training or basic life support where it becomes muscle memory.

10:25
Dr. Bea Bakshi
You can't get muscle memory in entrepreneurship because often every day you're dealing with a problem you've never dealt with before or the organization has never experienced before. So you can't rely on that muscle memory. You just have to. What you realize is a bit like, you know, with medicine, you develop this gut instinct, right? And then more and more, I think as an entrepreneur, as you learn, I'm sure you feel this. So you develop this gut instinct where you kind of feel like, I think I, I think we should do this. I don't have much day or I don't have this, but I just have this instinct that maybe if we do this, we should go in this direction. But itself, it's such a conveyor but journey from 16 through to 24. It's a long time, right.

11:00
Dr. Bea Bakshi
But I think it really, it sets you up infrastructure in understanding how things work, working teams working really big organizations, understanding what bureaucracy looks like, what good change management looks like, what things slow things down, what things speed things up. Right. Maybe a bit of disillusionment as well with some people who, when you're trying to change things, it's very hard to get things to change. But generally speaking, I think doctors make great entrepreneurs.

11:28
Amardeep Parmar
And we mentioned there about the gut training as well, right. And I think not enough people use before becoming an entrepreneur, you should be good at something to a high level, wherever it is. So obviously as a medic and a doctor, you have to be very good at treating patients and not being able to diagnose. And it's obviously you say use the textbooks, but by the time you get further and further ahead, you can pretty much tell because you've had so many reps that enables you to tell it's all right. I mean, entrepreneurship, what happens is the same thing is that this is my nearly 400th episode of this podcast, right. I can pretty much just make the conversation flow because I've done enough of these. Whereas somebody else might need to research for three days before doing this.

12:06
Amardeep Parmar
Whereas I'm like, okay, I've talked to a lot of doctor entrepreneurs before. I can pattern match and I'm not consciously doing it, but it's coming out in my head where I can now think about the next thing. And obviously as a doctor, like you said, in order to become a doctor in the first place, you have to get top results, you have to get top scores, you have to constantly be in the top elite of whatever you're doing throughout your process. And that mindset can then transfer extension to entrepreneurship where there's competitive end to it, right? Is that you've got to always constantly be the best. And in medicine is that if you aren't doing your best, then there's somebody's life at risk. And those stakes and constant risk is, I think, relatable to entrepreneurship, right?

12:47
Amardeep Parmar
Because, well, depending on what you do, usually nobody, I think if I do a podcast badly is going to die. But it's those stakes involved with it, right? You have to make decisions quickly because if you don't, something is going to happen there and for you and your own journey. So obviously you said about all the different schools you got from being a doctor, but what made you then decide actually away from theater is where I can maybe make the best impact?

13:13
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Yeah, it's a really good question. I think all of us have like a light bulb moment when we think about what opportunity we can do beyond either medicine or beyond the day to day value we can create. And sometimes people go into, you know, holding leadership roles within their hospital institution. Some people do different stuff. My thing was always, and actually even before entrepreneurship, right? It's always, if I saw a problem I'd be like, that doesn't make sense, why do we do that? And I was probably a bit irritating and annoying in many scenarios in answering these questions, but I never actually had any ambition for leadership. It was, it was one of those things that I'd like complain about something and I'd find myself in a meeting.

13:54
Dr. Bea Bakshi
So when I was an F1 like my first job was a surgical rotation job and there was seven surgical teams and we all had one computer. We all had kind of our patient lists on the hard drive of that computer. So we couldn't even go to another ward or another department. And we'd all come in earlier and earlier. So we used to be coming in at like 6:30 in the morning, so we can each individually update our list and in the evening we'd all sit around till like 7, 8 o' clock to individually update our list. And the reason why was because all the other computers on the ward had been broken and we'd escalated to like the ward manager and one of those things. And it was obviously a really poor use of our time, patient safety issues, etc.

14:35
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And I remember just finding myself in a room and I just kind of blurred out to be like, well it's ridiculous. All these commuters are broken. Who's fixing these commuters? And it was all like, oh, we've put in an, like a ticket or we've done this, right? And I happen to be, and I don't know how I happen to be in a room with, I want to say the CEO or someone very senior for the trust. And I just like in some ways I don't have that filter of like, well actually this is your hospital, like you want to know. So I don't have this often I don't have this perception of like this power dynamic or thinking that you Know, oh, I can't be seen this, I need tow a party line.

15:09
Dr. Bea Bakshi
But I just said it very clearly being like, all these computers are broken. Like, we can't do this. We're coming into ads. And what you often find in, when you, when you skip a few leaders of a few levels of management and go straight to someone like that, they're just like, well, I had no idea. Let's fix this. Like the next week all the computers were fixed in the ward and I was just like, okay, that was cool. And then it was a couple of things. Other times, I remember again, we had lots of small things, but the few things that stand out is like, better. We had a junior doctor who, that evening had been sent home as a night. They were, they were doing a day shift and they got sent home at like 4 o'. Clock.

15:45
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Very common, these things to do a night shift because someone called in sick. And again, I found myself in a room and I was just like, that's not appropriate. They didn't have enough hours of safety behind. Why are you doing that? And he got called up and he got escalated. And off the back of that, I was just like, well, it's not a safe space to escalate. We set up a junior doctors forum. This is back in like 2013 or things like that, right? And then because I was saying these things, people started inviting me to be part of these rooms. And then I joined the local negotiating committee, which is a trust based, the trade union arm of the trust, and then kind of the regional one. And then I started working my way up within the trade unions.

16:21
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Then I was doing stuff on like leading terms and conditions of contract for the junior doctor contract negotiations. This is the first time junior doctors went on strike. And it was one of those things that like, I found myself in rooms just because I was saying things or calling out things that actually we probably all were thinking. But rather than having this cathartic moment that often we do as doctors where we're just like, my shift was hard and my shift was harder and like, you know, like as entrepreneurs, right? Oh my God. I had this experience. I had this experience, right? I was once challenged by a consultant to be like, when I was having one of those moments and he just kind of leaned and said, like, so what are you doing about it? What are you going to do about it?

16:58
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And that kind of stated me to be like, actually I want to be the doer. I don't want to be the talker, right? In saying like, well, okay, if I could solve it, what would I do? So it was. It's always constantly the idea of if I can see something and I feel like I can fix it. So when see the signs came about, it very much was that I just saw. I saw a very. And experience a very real problem. Like, all of us have been touched by cancer. We've all lost a loved one to cancer. I think we've all asked the same question as well. When we hear about someone being diagnosed with cancer or losing someone to cancer around, like, what if. What if we picked up early? What if we asked them to get checked out sooner?

17:36
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And thinking that, you know, could have the outcome be differently? And when we live in that, what if it's not actually a problem in medicine, it's a problem of timing, right? Is if we got in earlier, if the doctor got in earlier, if we encourage them to be seen earlier. And when I looked at the data and I just thought, actually, this is a massive problem. So many people are dying. It's a huge bottleneck, and everyone's attention is on treatment and, you know, diagnostics. No one's thinking upstream. No one's thinking about how to identify patients earlier. And it was a very rude experience in. In A and E that I had with this particular patient and kind of, you know, why was my cancer diagnosed so late?

18:12
Dr. Bea Bakshi
So when I took that away and I kind of shared and escalated it was the same kind of rhetoric of, it's too hard, sad people die. You can't really do anything about how. It's just like, it's so obvious. So why don't. Why. Why aren't we screening? Why aren't we risk stratifying became like, I never had a sense of wanting to do a business or a sense of that. It was just that, guys, we need to solve this. This problem. Like, let's chat about it. And I went to some cancer charities. Then I kind of found, like, people who talked about this issue, and they said, yeah, it's a good idea, but it's really hard. We've tried to do this. It's not really work.

18:44
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And then I had a cancer charity tell me, well, you know, you can't just be asking for funding to try and solve this problem. You need to solve this problem yourself. And it was. It was. It was almost like the doors that closed that led me to be. Led me to the conclusion of maybe I need to have a company so I don't need to beg for money to try and build a solution to solve this problem. So it becomes very convoluted but again centered around the things of when things are obvious and everyone you put in a room, like, you know, he had that for like survey says, yeah, why don't we solve this problem? Just, it just became very compelling. And then I just got very obsessed with it in trying to solve it.

19:22
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And my co founder at the time, I was really lucky. Mars, who we met as junior doctors, he himself had taught himself to code. He was doing a lot of coding. He used to build websites and apps. So again, it became really obvious to me, like, mars, can we build this? Like within a month he just built a wireframe and it was, that was all like that moment. I think this could happen. I think this could happen. Let's do it.

19:45
Amardeep Parmar
Oh, hello. Quick interruption to let you know a bit more about BAE HQ. We're the community for high growth Asian heritage entrepreneurs, operators and investors in the UK. You can join us totally free at thebaehq.com/join. There you'll get our CEO structure in your inbox every week, which is content, events and opportunities. You can also get access to our free Startup Fundamentals course by joining. Let's get back to the show. As you know, like a lot of people I talk to health care and health tech entrepreneurs, they all worry about how do you get this to actually get piloted and how do you get people to actually use this product? So you can come up with a good idea but it's always notoriously hard to actually get it piloted.

20:33
Amardeep Parmar
How did you go from this wireframe to actually getting somebody to pay and use that product?

20:38
Dr. Bea Bakshi
It is so hard. And I don't think it's got easier over the years. I think it's actually just got harder. Where previously people were probably just really, well, intentional. Let's solve the problem now. It's just like before we solve the problem, let's discuss regulation, let's discuss this, let's discuss all of these other things. So not that's a bad thing, but it means that there's just more steps to jump through before we can start even talking about what the best approach is or how innovation or technology can be used to solve that problem. We actually just sought out champions. I think entrepreneurs in healthcare who are, you know, have a clinical background, probably have some insights on how the NHS works.

21:15
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Like I feel profound empathy for non clinical entrepreneurs trying to solve an NHS problem in understanding how the NHS works because it is so convoluted and there are so many quangos and there's so many organizations and there's so many different names to understand, you know, how did decisions flow? How does, how does funding for. How do all these things. We started off in the most innocent way as a free pilot in just being able to say, how can we generate real world data? How can we get user feedback, both qualitative feedback and hard data to see how the system worked? How can we just look at implementation science of it as well? So we started just very kind of without thinking even about money or commercial models or things like that very much. And does it work?

22:03
Dr. Bea Bakshi
That was a pre, like, does it work? Will people use it? Will people like it? But were lucky that we found champions of people who sort of very early and said, like, I think this is a good idea, I think we should do it. How do we make this happen to get, get enough data to get enough idea of impact and usability and feasibility to get to the next point. I think understanding with a pilot what you want to achieve and what's the next point you want to get to is really important to define those terms because I have seen and I think we even like run the risk of if you do a pilot that you don't, like you put it, but you're not clear and the other organizers aren't clear, like, are you aligned on what you want to measure?

22:44
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Are you aligned on what it means? Once you get this, is it going to convert? Is it just, you're getting data to help support, you know, maybe for regulation, maybe for just publication or just to support the building of evidence behind the technology or the platform. So that's the bit where I think like sometimes you're just so excited that, yes, let's just go, go, that when you don't define those, you then end up realizing, like in your mind you probably achieved those outcomes. In their mind, maybe they were looking for like efficiency savers for roi. And I think early on were just very much, no, we're just focused on impact. And one of my supervisors really early on, and this is again going into the naivety of like, you're like, I want to solve cancer, I want to help people.

23:27
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And he, and he just kind of said to me, well, actually be, if we put funding behind anything, you could, you could probably have an argument to say we want funding to improve and then insert X condition, right? Asthma, epilepsy, dementia, Alzheimer's. So it really is the case of like, why this technology, why this condition? And there has to be an ROI. There has to be a business case behind it, because you could argue the same for anything you do when it comes to health care compared to probably any other industry. So you really have to think about, say, have a fixed budget, why this product, why this disease and potentially why your organization is some of the things I think we learn after several rounds of iteration discussion, probably too naive coming in that a good thing is just a good thing.

24:12
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Everyone should behind a good thing. And actually a good thing is not enough when it comes to thinking about scalability, sustainability and all the other things that you have to be cognizant of in healthcare.

24:24
Amardeep Parmar
Was that a difficult transition? Because I think we're going through a similar phase of the moment right of the idea is like, let's just help loads of people. But then people don't value things as much when they're free. And you obviously leave yourself liable. Where can you pay the rent? Can you pay these things if you're not also thinking about as a business? And it's been a difficult emotional transition for us of like, we started in this way, but in order for this to be sustainable and survive, actually help the people who want to, it's also got to be a sustainable business too. How is that transition? Because you might be able to, like, logically that's the best thing, but it can be different internally to make that change.

24:58
Dr. Bea Bakshi
It's a really. Yeah. And a really great question. So Mars and I, my co founder, like we had no ambition to be entrepreneurs or startups or, you know, that I think actually because we saw in 2017 and that probably came a few years later, like the, maybe the lure or the glamour around it, but were just like, oh, this is a really interesting project. And we had already done some work when were at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital where we built an app for the hospital, gave it to the hospital. But we just loved the idea of using innovation to solve problems. So even this we actually went around and said like, oh, can like we just need to get some engineers to get it off the ground.

25:33
Dr. Bea Bakshi
So we didn't have like really high hopes or high ambitions of like, you know, of thinking about where this could go. We were just like, what's the 0 to 1, we need some engineers. How are we going to get engineers? And probably for the first three years, you see the signs, we just worked for free, like, you know, ate into our savings, did locum shifts, like out of hours, like all of that again, because we didn't come under a structure Or a program of, you know, this is how entrepreneurs are made. Or this is how you take idea to conception, to scalability of like, you know, mvp. This. There was, there was nothing like, you know, if you take a startup, you know, book of like, what to do.

26:11
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Like there was, it was all just like, you know, working it out on the fly and doing some of that stuff. It, it really was when people closed doors in our, in our face and people saying like, well, you guys are doctors. You know, doctors make us doctors to pay for us. Health systems pay for it. Like, can we give you donations? Can you have chart? We're just like, oh my God, we're gonna be, we're spending our life just begging people to give us some funding so we can just hire it to engineers. And it's like, well, what are the options? Could it be a social enterprise?

26:38
Dr. Bea Bakshi
But even then we're fundraising and things, oh my God, we're going to have to be a company and we're going to actually need to like commercialize this in a way to build this, to then be able to deliver this, to then help patients. And it seems so obvious and it seems quite childlike when you stitch that together. Like, isn't that obvious? But the other problem when I say all the benefits of the NHS is one of the things the NHS is doctors. Like, you don't really have that concept, right? Like a lot of things you do is because it's the right thing to do. Like you'll find a lot of time you're in discussions and things like that. Maybe slightly different now, but at least 10 years ago, training coming through the NHS, we didn't discuss pound signs, we discussed impact and outcome.

27:19
Dr. Bea Bakshi
So the fact that we're an evidence based NHS as well, to say, if there's evidence for it, we'll do it, we'll pay for it. You know, whether it's surgery, whether it's this, whether it's a very expensive treatment, it's not the case of this is expensive. Who are the best people to give it, to give this drug to get the best roi? We weren't exposed to those conversations. So then when thinking about having a good idea and executing it, the innocence and naivety of like, this is a good idea. Why is everyone behind it? And they're like, well, you know, sort out guys, you need to sort this out. I think, I think that was a big lesson in thinking about how we set up the infrastructure, hire people and then it comes with all the Things that we probably all experience.

28:01
Dr. Bea Bakshi
So things like HR managing, people hiring, accountancy know, tax returns, VAT returns, all the other things that like no one teaches you, right? Especially in healthcare. Like every single doctor has that same experience with their pay slip where they know they understand a single thing on their pay slip, right? Just the bottom right hand number, right where they're like, you know, so I think that, that kind of concept, but it means that you typically found companies where they're founded based on a problem, so you don't need to solve the problem. It's so implicit and you can really identify the pain points. I think doctors go after really tangible problems that can really solve and have a seismic shift. But I think the operational side of things is a steeper learning curve.

28:43
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Unless you get like a non clinical co founder or things, some of these, those types of things, it's like, it's a rapid learning curve. Obviously for dentists in their country they are taught about things because dentists run as businesses. In the US it's slightly different because healthcare is one, it's for profit as a business. But UK NHS is very exclusively in that way that we don't get taught much from that side.

29:02
Amardeep Parmar
So obviously it's been some time now since you moved to being a company and being able to scale as much as you have. If you could give us some of the most proudest moments you've been able to achieve, who you see the science so can just know about how this has gone from that problem that you want to be solved so badly to now all the impact you've then gone on to make.

29:20
Dr. Bea Bakshi
You know, sometimes like when you're in this like founder mode and entrepreneurship mode, you often just feel like you're standing still and it's really hard and you look back and where was like one year ago, two years ago, five years ago and what you were worried about, you had sleepless nights and you're just like, wow, that doesn't even matter now. Like you don't really care about that single proudest thing in see the signs we are, we have really come across like we're so North Star obsessed, right on mission focus. I think for us like and everyone, every single person in the team I think would say the same thing. From you know, our help desk to our engineering team and so forth, is actually the number of patients we've detected. So we've, we found like 50,000 patients with cancer through the platform.

30:04
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And I think that is the most exciting thing for us is to see that we often have this thing internally. We talk about it like we don't count clicks, we don't count users, we can't impact, right? You have to count impact. Because even if you have the best years of experience and the best work for and things like that, right? Like I even say this to health systems, like you're paying for a service, right? How are you measuring me being good enough to deliver a service and meeting your expectations for your patients, your populations and cancer. So that's the bit where I think like for us, all of us would really think about like, are we getting to our North Star on actually having an impact on earlier diagnosis, on patient outcomes and survival, kind of rethinking about how we change the narrative.

30:46
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Because part of what every single I think healthcare founder does, or any founder breaking into an industry which probably the status quo has been the most powerful thing impacting or influencing or resisting change is the ability to re educate as well as introduce the innovation. And I think that's something that I think every founder has to be super proud of, right? Because we're not only bringing to attention that this is a problem you should focus on and why things are before you even introduce your solution. And just that education and relearning and getting that messaging and getting people to care, whether it's your product or another product doesn't really matter. The fact that you even create that conversation I think is fantastic. Like what you guys are doing, what you've created the conversation, right?

31:31
Dr. Bea Bakshi
You've created, you've, by you coming first, people are going to be thinking about, oh, we should do this, maybe we should do this, right? And that in itself is amazing. It's like starting that conversation and then when you start measuring the impact and like you, I think you told me earlier that people are contacting you like this will change my life. I heard this video. It inspired me to do X. I found the courage, I found the empowerment. That's amazing, right? That's probably going to be like so much more gratifying than anything else, right, that you can take home. Because the one thing you don't know about this journey is when it will end, right?

32:02
Dr. Bea Bakshi
So these are the wins that you feel like even I, I tell myself this is the time if it ends tomorrow, right, like that will be so it doesn't matter, right? That's 50, 000 patients we're so excited about. Obviously we'd love to get to a million, you know, 100,000, then you know, the next milestones that's amazing. Like, I could. I could go. I could, like, hold my head high to be like, guys, we did something incredible here. So I think those types of things, but also reframing what a success look like. So internally, we don't really talk about, like, fundraising milestones.

32:33
Dr. Bea Bakshi
We don't talk about, like, regulatory milestones and milestones that might increase the value of the company, but also means that they're performative for a different reason, but sometimes also can feel like, pressure and feel like chasing something based on how you're externally judged. But if we could keep the narrative internally about it, then I think few people also feel more motivated. And that gratification of I'm doing something important without the worry and the stress of about. We're in a very uncertain time, a very uncertain fundraising landscape where, you know, it's volatile, it's unpredictable and it's uncertain. And how do you live in that space when you're leading a company and you want the best for your team and the best for staff and the best for your customers and things like that, but like you said, you have to pay the bills.

33:18
Dr. Bea Bakshi
How do you do that? So those are the kind of things that I think ground us, but motivate us.

33:23
Amardeep Parmar
Yeah. And I mean, 50,000 people being early detected isn't a bad win, I think. Right? I think that's a good win. If this will all end tomorrow, that's a pretty good win. Segue.

33:31
Dr. Bea Bakshi
If you are like, you know, this is, like, really cheap in My personal statement was like, the most cheesiest personal statement. But I'm. I'm probably inherently a very cheesy person. And it was one of those types of stories of. And it was a very common story. But I just personalize it because I had that. I saw that and I had that experience. My mom's from Kenya. We used to go to Kenya a lot when I was. I was a child. But my. My opening on my personal is super cheesy. Whereas, you know, I'm walking down the beach and I see these starfish and they're all beached.

33:58
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And, you know, I'm, you know, you're picking up the starfish, you're throwing it into the ocean, and somewhat like, you know, a little boy runs or someone runs across and says, like, you know, why are you doing this? You're going to save all these starfish. Like, there's thousands of starfish here. And you bend over and you pick up starfish and you throw it into the ocean. It's just Like, I made a difference to that one. Right? And that was the opening of my personal statement. Right. And a few, you know, a few universities came back and said, like, we're not going to interview for that personal statement opening because we feel that you're too naive and you've got to do this too, like, because, you know, it's such a value driver for me of like the ability to help one person.

34:35
Dr. Bea Bakshi
But also people are very practical, right. Like, we see that, you know, people are getting more academic, people are getting very formulaic about things like your CVS and things like that. But it's also the, the relentless optimist in me to be like, actually if you can affect one person in a positive way, that's magical. And I've seen, and I'm sure all of you have had that one teacher or that one supervisor that one person has given you because my parents have been fantastic. But parents are always biased, right? They like, they just think you're amazing, they love you unconditionally, you know, they give you all the support and kind that you're doing a great job.

35:10
Dr. Bea Bakshi
But people, when you have people who are teachers and trainers and supervisors and they give you that moment to say, like, what you're doing is important and I believe in you and I think you should go for it. Don't doubt yourself. It has such a big impact on what you're doing. And, and I've had moments that have changed my life based on that type of feedback. So the same way, like if you can, whether it's through health care, whether it's anything you're doing, whether it's obviously what you're doing and in bringing this, all of this kind of empowerment, education and encouragement to new community, it's, it changed the world. It does.

35:46
Amardeep Parmar
You mentioned as well, just before that how all of the team is like, about the mission, right. About helping people and you sent to the help desk because there's always different teams. You now have how many people are now in the team and also who do you think you should have hired earlier than you did? And you maybe waited too long. They made a really big difference to the company after you'd made the hire or that team hire.

36:07
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Yeah. So we're just shy of 40 right now. And it's really difficult to say, you know, how would we hire? Because if I was going to do this again, you know, I probably would, or actually I, I honestly, I don't know. But obviously when you have funding, you're in a very different position. You can hire talent, you can rethink intentionally about, like investing in people, but investing infrastructure, investing in all these things. But were like two doctors with zero money, with jobs, like, again, like keeping the lights on for our own personal expenses and things like thinking, like, how do we move the dial on this? Right? So it was scrappy, but, like, we probably couldn't have done anything differently because we had no money. Like, our first two hires were actually sponsored interns. So we couldn't even afford interns.

36:56
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Like, someone sponsored these interns to work with us and they were students. So it was really scrappy to get to where we are, I think absolutely. Now when I see these companies and they, before even, you know, they've got the product, when they raise a lot of money and hire these great teams, you can see, like, it absolutely accelerates things as opposed to going kind of step by step, which often you have to do when you're a bit scrappy on the on the earlier stages. But I probably wouldn't change anything because it put more on me and miles to learn and to really experience everything firsthand. Whereas if I had like an amazing head of people, but I wouldn't have done any recruitment or I wouldn't have had that experience of like, how do you fire someone, right? Or how do you do this?

37:39
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Or how do you set up a contract, how do you do, like R and D, tax, you know, tax claims, all of these things that like, you just wouldn't have done, right, if you had an A star team and they were ordering all this specialist, right? So I'm probably better for it. I wouldn't have probably said it at the time, right? You know, come through these scars and you just, like, now you wear these scars proudly. To be like, I did this, I was like wearing all these hats. I know how to do it. That, yeah, probably. I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change it.

38:03
Amardeep Parmar
And you said as well how internally you're keeping very much focused on the mission about how many people can you detect early. But in order to do that, like you said, you've got to keep the lights on. You've got to get the funding too. And when you're trying to juggle those two different things right, where you really care about what you're doing, but you know that in order to get funding, you need to present certain stats, you need to present your company a certain way as well. How do you think you're able to get that funding to be able to enable you to do the work you're doing.

38:27
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Health care is such a chicken and egg problem because it's technology intensive, it's regulation, safety. All of these things have big costs to start off with before they will even be like, you know, have you got all these certificates before we can even like consider your technology and software. So it's really challenging. I think part of some of the things that were slightly easier for Miles and I is that I actually did a lot of work nationally, so I was like the deputy chair of the IT committee across like the British Medical Association, NHS and NHS Digital. So I was doing a lot of work in saying like, what does good regulation look like? What does patient safety look like? What, how do we think about data?

39:07
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Like I was doing work at the time when GDPR came out and it was like, what, how do we implement GDPR across every single GP practice? So we just had a very close understanding about regulation, about clinical safety, about cyber, about data protection, all these things that we actually were able to do a lot of things in house. I, I remember we would pull like all nighters in order to get these documents in and we had like, between us wrote like over like a hundred different documents where probably now people would be like, oh, maybe get an expert to do actually maybe easier now with the world of LLMs, but we would do that just because we had that knowledge and were going in that way. So it's like easier.

39:49
Dr. Bea Bakshi
I think what we did was that we didn't compromise speed for quality or intention for revenue. And what I mean by that is sometimes there are pots of funding that come out of nowhere and there is a lure to say like, oh, we could do that, we could repurpose our technology to do that or we could go after that and think so that. But because were very intentional about what problem we're solving, it meant also we could be quite disciplined and focused to say actually is this helping us get to our North Star for cancer? And there might be funding available there might be a new plot there. Actually that's not true to our mission. So equally saying no to opportunities that might have been a good short term opportunity, but a bigger long term obligation also meant we could be focused.

40:35
Dr. Bea Bakshi
But then were scaling a single product which I think you then at some point have economies of scale in the way that you can actually really, you know, capitalize on a single product as opposed to, I think the hardest thing about healthcare right now is you've got companies solving so many different problems. Take communication. There's so many layers of problems there. Think about interoperability, think about workplace, things like that. So it often means that it can bleed into some other areas. Or actually, could you do a bit of this? Could you do a bit of this? Right, which then can increase expenses. It can increase. Like how do you. Contracts, then you've got different customers in different ways. So we've.

41:14
Dr. Bea Bakshi
I say we've been lucky, but actually it's just because we've been very specific that we are in a specific vertical, in a specific disease. And even in cancer, we're just an early diagnosis. Right. Very focused. That meant that we could be disciplined about how we spent money, but also the relationships we built that we could, we could sustain ourselves a bit longer.

41:34
Amardeep Parmar
It's avoiding that shiny object syndrome. Right. And before we started recording, we're talking.

41:38
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Very good example. Yeah.

41:40
Amardeep Parmar
Misconceptions and about how was it how I was thinking about when people come to podcast, they get certain images of people and how founder life is. That isn't always true. And you'll talk about this as well, about how there's different struggles people sometimes don't see. What do you think are some of the biggest misconceptions that the aspiring entrepreneur listening right now might have? That you might be able to kind of give them a bit more of a reality check or. And it could be in a good way or a bad way.

42:06
Dr. Bea Bakshi
I think the biggest question when we think about being an entrepreneur going into entrepreneurship, and you could be entrepreneurial, you can work in entrepreneurship or do things like that, but to be like a founder or CEO or co founder, the first thing I ask is like, why, like, why do you want to do it? Or what are you trying to achieve or why do you really want to do it? And sometimes when yourself just ask that question to yourself, right, if you can't find a good reason, you really need to question like, well, why am I doing it? And it's okay if your answer is like, well, like, MedTech looks cool, I want to go into MedTech. And but if you have a clear understanding of what your why is.

42:50
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Actually if you listed that out, then being a co founder or CEO might not actually, you might not need that to. To meet your. To meet what is motivating you now or motivating your interest now. And I think it might feel quite binary that the only way to do entrepreneurship is starting a company. That's not true. There's so many different things. There's so many aviators, there's so many different opportunities. Or often, I think it's a bit like 10 years ago, where doctors, if they left health care is like, what do I do? I have consultancy or pharma, and those are the only two options, or medical education. And even now, I think for some people, or some doctors feel those are the three options. You can actually do anything you want to be a baker.

43:29
Dr. Bea Bakshi
We've seen doctors be bakers, we've seen doctors be artists. So, like, we put restrictions on ourselves and we set rules for ourselves and we put ourselves in these boxes and then we set ourselves these high expectations to meet some level of fulfillment that we want to seek in the world. I think it's just the question of, like, what do you want your day to day look like? What makes you happy? And why do you really want to do it? Because the amazing thing is that, like, if you're, if you've got this far and you've got a degree or you've got a postgraduate degree and you're. And you're working like, you are smart. Like, you are so smart, you have transferable skills. And that's whether you're in medicine or you've done law or accounting or things like that. Like, you are a smart person.

44:09
Dr. Bea Bakshi
So you just have to have the confidence to think that just because you trained in one thing, it doesn't mean that's your box, right? You could do anything but making sure that you stay true to, like, what's your. Why, what's the path that you want to lead? Rather than seeing another person's path to say, because I often get that like, oh, how did you do this? As if, like, this is ABC of now becoming, you know, this where I am now. And actually, if I started again, I'd probably have a different ABC, because no two entrepreneurs have the same journey. Like, you know, two Dr. Entrepreneurs, no two entrepreneurs have even received funding from the same, you know, venture capital. The same year, the same amount will have completely different journeys, right? So there is no standardization.

44:51
Dr. Bea Bakshi
So the idea that there is a path to take you to X. Actually, what is X? And is that the path? Is there another path? What are you willing to sacrifice? What works for you, what makes you happy? Like, you might have different commitments, different obligations, like, make it work for you. Don't feel like you need to own that person's journey or the other person's journey in order to think that's what success is. I think that's the problem is that we dictate or we're very prescriptive of what does success look like? It's this exit, it's this IPO or it's this much money in or this much raise or this one. It's all arbitrary. Right. Like what makes you happy? Right. What does success look like for you? That could be a lifestyle business.

45:28
Dr. Bea Bakshi
It could be like, you know, being able to drop your kids to work and come back and spend four hours a day working on a business, which might be an E commerce business. It could be drop shipment, it could be in healthcare, it could be consult what makes you happy. Right, Lean into that.

45:42
Amardeep Parmar
So just before we go to quick fire questions, what we're doing now? So with 240something episodes in, this might be two episodes, 250, I don't know yet. And what we're doing is after 200 episodes, so about two years, we're saying to the guests that can come back on again. So if you were sitting here in two years time, after another 200 episodes, what would you love to say as like your partner's moment? So you've said you've done 50,000 patients today. What would you love to say in two years time?

46:08
Dr. Bea Bakshi
In two years I want us to be at 500,000. So really compound because the fastest growth we've seen is in the last year based on like, you know, increasing coverage etc, so definitely at 500,000. One of the key things that especially because we're doing some work, we're doing a lot of work actually in the US that is. Is really hitting hard for me and actually it was one of the things that we did when went into this is that a lot of the problems entrepreneurs are solving and with these are global problems and sometimes, you know, we get stuck with the nhs, but actually you're solving a global solution. We're living in a global economy where there is so much accessibility now you see from how digital technologies are giving you access and channels and visibility.

46:50
Dr. Bea Bakshi
In thinking about like, I really want to see how we can really help the communities that need it most. Especially when we think about, and we're very fortunate in this country that healthcare is free. But in many countries actually affordability of healthcare is equivalent to survivorship. Right. And you know, part and parcel, healthcare is a human right before cancer, care is a human right. So I think for me I'd love to be able to have more that I can demonstrate and hold my head up to be like, I took this to countries where they don't see many healthcare innovation because of costs and things like that, but because we're software and software is super scalable and this ability to do it super cheap, hopefully we can actually have a tangible impact. So the access, the quality pieces is really important to me.

47:34
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Obviously, if I'm still here in two years and see the signs. Still here in two years, Fantastic. We're always winning. Every, every chorus, like, you know, it's borrowed time. Sometimes it feels like, you know, with all of these things, when it comes to an understanding, you know, very grateful. If I'm still there in two years, I'll be very grateful.

47:50
Amardeep Parmar
Okay, so 500,000. So it's like 10x, right?

47:53
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Yeah.

47:54
Amardeep Parmar
So now quick fire questions to wrap up. So first one is, who are three Asians in Britain you think are doing incredible work? And you'd love to shout them out today?

48:05
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Okay, so I think there's loads of Asians in Britain doing incredible work, not just in entrepreneurship, but in the creative industries, in art, in writing, in science, in maths. Like, you know, there's. There's so much happening. I think all of your past videos are testimony to how incredible and actually how rich that is. I think the biggest thing that, for me, what I've seen is that often I've been kind of signposted or being Asian is almost seen as like, okay, how do we. How do you match Asian to Asian? Or how do you think about, like, bringing Asian mentorships and things like that? And one of the key things that I've always found is that the people that have tapped me on the shoulder or empowered me or helped me through the rain actually haven't been Asian.

48:51
Dr. Bea Bakshi
And the challenge is that, like, as an Asian as well, I'm still climbing up this ladder, right? I'm trying to get up my ladder, like, and I want to. I want to make sure that ladder is there for the next person. I want to make sure I can bring people, but I'm still climbing up the ladder. And the benefit is that there are people probably at the top there, right, because of privilege, because of access, because of different things. And it's about how we think also about how those people can help us as we come up through the ranks and really diversifying what that opportunity looks like. But often I say this is like, it is a lot harder is absolutely. Fundraising is not harder. Running a tech company is a lot harder. Being a woman is a lot higher.

49:29
Dr. Bea Bakshi
The intersectionality pieces is a lot harder. But I've been very fortunate and I think many people have come into entrepreneurship and they've noticed it. I came through healthcare. It's 50 gender parity. Like, I think something like 60, 70% of the NHS is non white. Like it is such a diverse organization. There's the biggest diversity of non British people as well, working in nhs. So I've never had that experience of thinking about accessibility and diversity in that way. But then coming into technology and entrepreneurship, you're in a room with a single demographic and a single sex consistently. So you do feel that change. And I think for everyone at home is this thing and things like that who want to go into that. You probably feel that. And in a weird way it creates a power balance, right?

50:16
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Don't look like them, you're not the same sex as them, you're not the same age as them, you didn't go to the same schools as them and things like that. And often actually is you're never going to be able to overcome that. How do you get the confidence? Right? How do you get confidence? It's absolutely looking at all the agents you've done it, but actually anyone who's done it in those, in the different paths, whether Asian or non Asian, and making sure that feels accessible to you. Because the hardest thing is thinking that path could be your path, when the only people you've seen go down that path are people who don't look like you, who haven't had your background, who haven't had your experience in life.

50:52
Dr. Bea Bakshi
So that's one of the biggest things I think for me I've seen is not only having kind of the visibility of like, you need to see what you can be, but also having the encouragement to say, actually, even if you can't see it, you can be it. Right? How do, how do we create that narrative as well? Like, you know, have we Asians in space, right? Asians doing this, Asians doing that. Right. By the time we probably get the Asian astronauts sitting here interviewing you, how do you actually inspire the person to be that person, to go down that route and then come here and be interviewed where you like. It's a fascinating thing.

51:25
Dr. Bea Bakshi
But one thing that I've done, and I think your previous founders have talked about this as well, is I can't see, say, is that in each organization kind of look up, look down, look left, or look right. Really look at what that looks like to be like, is this right for me if you don't see that in an organization you work with, you often will find that those organizations have more issues, right, in thinking about access, thinking about opportunity for you. Because many people will be in organizations that they want to really aspire up to access opportunity and then also the ability to have the accountability for the outcome rather than like who you are in many ways. So it's probably a bit of a cop out.

52:10
Dr. Bea Bakshi
I can't just name three, but I think there's so many to, to shout out of brilliant people that are doing brilliant things. Just as a signer, I spoke to my husband about this question yesterday and for some went down like a, you know, lots of different rabbit holes, but we landed on what goodness gracious me did as well, right. I don't know if you ever look back and you think, right, that when were kids we never saw anything Asian on tv, right? We, we had no experience with that, no exposure to that. Like, all Asians were typecasted in very Asian roles. Like, you know, it was the corner shop Mr. And Mr. Patel in EastEnders or this or that, right? And it was a really interesting thing. I think we think about this all the time is that like, we're not tight cast, right?

52:54
Dr. Bea Bakshi
We're not in one boat, one box or things like that and how we really think about the diversification. So probably a lot of your guests have been doctors who are Asian. But that's because all of us pretty much as kids were like, you know, probably put down that path. But you know, it's one of those things of how do you make everything accessible, every opportunity accessible to feel they can be anything? And that's the excitement, I think, in what you're doing. But also what I see with the future generation, that they don't feel like there's, there's engineering, there's accountancy, there's law, or there's medicine, right? There's, there's so much more.

53:28
Amardeep Parmar
Yeah. And I think a big part that too is one of the things we try to do is about it was building bridges. No walls, right? It's like, okay, the idea is to inspire people from Asian backgrounds and help them, but at the same time it's not at the expense of other people. And it's about, at our events, for example, a lot of people come from non Asian backgrounds and that's a Good thing because then if those people then get to mingle in different environment, they get to meet people who maybe aren't comfortable to go to other events, then it kind of normalizes all right. And those people might see opportunities. If it's a white man investor comes to one of our events, there might opportunities that into other events.

54:03
Amardeep Parmar
And then if like that money is flowing into the room, that's a good thing obviously. Right. And it's the whole thing. It shouldn't just be Asians only investing in Asians and only Asians. Asians, Asians, whatever that. It's more about we us collaborating with other groups too to make that stuff happen. And then the next question is if people want to find them up you and C the signs, where should they go to follow?

54:24
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Our LinkedIn page probably has the most up to date our website email us like very chilled, very relaxed, like, you know, very transparent actually in what we do and how we do things. Very. Also like a lot of people ask me about advice and things like that. I'm just, I love to do it. I'm just very mad at getting back to people. So I'm just going to apologize in advance if you link to me and I don't get back to you.

54:46
Amardeep Parmar
Is there any way that people listening today could help you or help C the signs?

54:49
Dr. Bea Bakshi
I think if you know you've been touched by cancer and this is a mission that you find that talks to you. Like we're constantly hiring and looking for great talent and great people. So reach out if you think there's something that or a skill set that you have that you think that see the signs of benefit from. If you're in an organization that you think there might be an opportunity to collaborate or synergy and things like that. Just generally I think like whether it's value alignment or mission alignment, you know, we love supporters. So. Yeah.

55:18
Amardeep Parmar
So thanks so much for coming on today. Have you got any final words?

55:23
Dr. Bea Bakshi
I'd love to know what you would do in two years time actually. What's your, what's your thing? Where do you want to be in ts time? If you were, if I was interviewing you, where would you want. You said this is your 250th podcast show, so where would you?

55:38
Amardeep Parmar
So the accelerator launches at September, so they had a couple rounds of that.

55:41
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Okay, so maybe like how many entrepreneurs going through your program?

55:45
Amardeep Parmar
Yeah. So I think it's also about how much impact we've made on that first because I guess the first coat we could measure a bit more by that time. So let's say a couple of those companies have gone on to make like eight figure plus revenue in their two years and maybe a couple of them have gone on to raise like further like series A or something like that where we know there's not every single company is going to do amazingly. But if a few of those companies can do a lot better because were involved because we're able to give them that platform and then on the other side, so that's the more program side and then the platform grow into a case where basically everybody knows about it. And not to be from an Asian background, but just a general trusted resource.

56:23
Amardeep Parmar
And we're on that path now. But I think that's a big thing is that people listening to this episode, it's not valuable only if you're Asian. It's like anybody wants to get into health tech can value from this and it's kind of building that out now. So where people are just used to hearing from different diverse voices in the area and not only listening because you look like them, but just because the people in our community have value outside.

56:44
Dr. Bea Bakshi
Of their race or their color, et cetera. It's just their value creation. Yeah. Very exciting.

56:51
Amardeep Parmar
Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. See you next time. 

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