EVNT: HSBC Innovation Banking x The BAE HQ Panel

Amardeep Parmar: [00:00:00] So first up, we have Jeff Chowdhury. So if everybody can give them a clap as they come up as well, that'd be nice. So Jeff has worked in the finance industry for many years. And from there, he then started angel investing and helping out other companies. And I've actually interviewed both, well, two of his kids.

Amardeep Parmar: So Leah in the front row there and Reece Chowdhury as well. And he really believes in helping out the next generation and pushing them forwards. So do you want to come up on stage?

Amardeep Parmar: Yeah, wherever you want to sit. Grab a seat, yeah. Next we have Dimple Patel.

Amardeep Parmar: She's got a little fan club here. So I told Dimple's story a lot. So Dimple was raised in a council estate. She then became Goldman Sachs trader, bought a coffee shop, which was 23, turned it around, made it 37 coffee shops, sold it as private equity, then joined Trouva in the early days. Jay's shaking his head because he's got to follow this.[00:01:00] 

Amardeep Parmar: She joined Trouva, they raised 40 million. She then sold that to made.com. Made.com went bust. She then managed to save it and then sell it again. And she's now just exited that. So that's quite a wild story she's had there. And she's going to talk more about it when she gets up on stage. So, join us.

Amardeep Parmar: Okay, so last but not least, we've got Jay Gujral.

Amardeep Parmar: So Jay actually founded his first company while at university called Grad Lancer, which was then able to exit. He then, interestingly, went back into the corporate world where he worked for companies such as Dow Jones, McKinsey and BCG. And then he co founded Blockdojo, which got 25 percent of blockchain companies funded in the UK.

Amardeep Parmar: That's now expanding and is a global commercial director, and then going into places such as the Philippines and India as well. So, give your hands for Jay.[00:02:00] 

Amardeep Parmar: Was that all factual for everybody there? 

Jay Gujral: Yeah, I need you doing that every time I walk into a room, to be honest. 

Amardeep Parmar: So, what I just mentioned there is how you've all had very different paths to sitting on the stage today. And what I want to get from you is, like, do you think you took the right path? And would you reckon other people took the path you did?

Amardeep Parmar: Or what do you think maybe people could do differently? 

Jeff Chowdhry: You want me to start? So whoever wants to start. Okay, I'll start. I'll give it to you. Okay, um, I suppose the question really is not really whether I took the right path or not whether I took the right path, but am I happy? And I'm absolutely happy. Um, I'm a bit different from a lot of people in this room in the sense that I had a long term corporate career in asset management, fund management, etc, etc.

Jeff Chowdhry: And, uh, I was lucky enough, basically, to be helped very, very early on by a British agent, actually. And, uh, it was a complete luck that I matched against Sidney when I used to come out. [00:03:00] For Bankstation, um, 25 years ago, we woke up on Long Isle Street. I literally was the only brown person in the street. I was like, reverse Southwalk.

Jeff Chowdhry: Um, so, you know. And, and so, from that day that I was helped along on that journey, I made it a mission of mine. to help anyone I could on my journey. I'm a bit older now, um, but that's really what I want to do. And, uh, it's very important to me. Help young people, help British Asian people, people who have actually had some, you know, diverse, diverse problems in their background.

Jeff Chowdhry: I even help people from the North. Because I'm from Newcastle, you see, I was born in Newcastle. I'm from Newcastle, yeah. So, so that's kind of my story, and um, And now I work for Concept Ventures, and I'll give you 10 seconds on that story as well. A traditional model for an Asian, British Asian, Indian, whatever, Hispanic, is the father sets the [00:04:00] business up, and the son and the daughter, who's sitting there, comes and works.

Jeff Chowdhry: I was the complete reverse of that. So my son set the business up in 2017. I had a brilliant time with my previous job. He said, are you doing anything? I said, not much. He says, um, can we, can we go quickly? One day a week, pass the time. And he said, there was two conditions. I said, yeah. He said, I'm the boss.

Jeff Chowdhry: I said, that's absolutely fine. I've, I've heard enough of that for 25 years. And the second condition is, you're going to be paid. So, that's fine. Here I am, six years, six years later, with the biggest proceeds fund in the UK now. So, it's been reasonably a nice journey. And, um, I learned something new every single day of my life.

Jeff Chowdhry: And so that's why I'm happy. 

Amardeep Parmar: Thank you. And to you, Dimple. 

Dimple Patel: Yeah, thanks. Um, so I started my first business back in 2010. It wasn't in tech, um, and at the time I was a Goldman trader. So, you know, being the only female on that [00:05:00] trading desk, everybody was like, you're set up for life, it's gonna be amazing, you're gonna print money.

Dimple Patel: And then I took this really unorthodox approach, but it was kind of the middle of the banking crisis as well. Um, and the main thing was really just to learn. It was to learn how to build a business. I didn't have any contacts that was going to get me VC money. Um, so this was a turnaround. I took a business that somebody else couldn't make work.

Dimple Patel: And I tested myself to see if I was able to build it into something profitable and grow it going forward. And that was kind of where my entrepreneurial journey started. In all honesty, there were moments last year where I'd be like, what am I doing? Like, why did I sign up to this path? It can go sideways very, very quickly.

Dimple Patel: And I think it's really important to remember that, you know, as glamorous as it sounds to be starting and running businesses, there's a huge amount of risk. that you're dealing with on a day to day basis, and a huge amount of responsibility that you bear in doing that as well. I think [00:06:00] over the years, now being on the other side, I've absolutely loved every moment of it, and I think it's really helped me grow and develop as a person.

Dimple Patel: It's helped me kind of build an overall life that works for me. I've had two children, um, so I have an element of flexibility in terms of being able to see them as well. Um, and I continue to face new challenges that push me and make me uncomfortable. And I think that is the piece that I love. It's the piece that gets me out of bed in the morning.

Dimple Patel: Um, and I don't know if it's the banking crisis where I started my career that turned me into a bit of an adrenaline junkie. Um, but building something to last and building something to impact people's lives. is really, really valuable. And I think moving into tech just helps me understand how much more quickly you can scale when you're using tech.

Dimple Patel: Physical scaling is extremely painful and capital intensive. So every business I join, there's a new learning, there's a new team, there's something new to kind of accomplish and achieve. [00:07:00] Um, but When I was 23 and looking at my first business, it was really just, where do I get started? Where is the opportunity?

Dimple Patel: How do I throw everything at this thing to make it work? Um, so it's been, we've had ups and downs. It's been a bit of a rollercoaster, but I would say definitely the right path for me. 

Jay Gujral: Yeah, I think for me, my, my path is slightly different. Um, starting my own business and then when it's consulting and then gone back into a business, but my.

Jay Gujral: My path was that way because you know after university I was like this is probably the first time in life where I can actually Do something where I've got I've got I don't have any financial commitments. I've got nothing that I need to pay for anything. I'm going to take this risk now. And one thing that I suppose I was and still I'm really I'm quite good at is building a network or building a community.

Jay Gujral: And that's kind of what got me through it. University was I come up with this business. Can I find someone to back me? And [00:08:00] thankfully I did after probably making a mistake of walking up and down the streets of London with a pitch deck trying to get physical VC money. And I was like, actually, this is probably not the right thing, but I didn't know what the right thing was at that, at that time.

Jay Gujral: This was like 2014. Um, but found an angel in, in Portsmouth where I was at university who was willing to back me literally off the back of a pitch deck that I'd created a few weeks before. He gave me the cash to build out the platform that I wanted to, to create. And that's kind of where that journey started and has led me to what I'm doing now.

Jay Gujral: But I, I wanted to do the corporate route and the consulting route because it was like, right, I've had a grinding in doing something myself. I have no idea what the right thing is, so let's try and figure out what the right thing is. And it turns out all companies are just as messed up as even the one that I was, you know, I'd started.

Jay Gujral: So that was always good to know as well. So even when you go to a McKinsey, you realize that it's still nuts, absolutely nuts being inside there. And you realize that actually most people are fumbling their way through life. So I might as well try and do it myself, uh, and that's kind of [00:09:00] where then the dojo came into it.

Jay Gujral: So Block Dojo is a venture builder, blockchain venture builder that we started last January. Um, and to be honest, after going into it was actually quite a, uh, I took the, the slightly less risky approach because I was still at BCG at the time and I was building it evenings and weekends with a couple of others.

Jay Gujral: And that was my approach this time. Cause I was like. If this does go wrong, at least I've got a back up plan for once. Um, so that's, that's what I quite liked about it. But most founders don't have that opportunity and they go in full bore and, uh, and take on the full risk, but touch wood it's worked well for us so far.

Jay Gujral: Um, yeah. 

Amardeep Parmar: So I think the important thing there is they all had very different journeys, but they're all quite happy with how it turned out. And I think often you hear like entrepreneurial journeys of, Oh, I had a lemonade stand when I was five. It's like, not everybody's like that. And people come to in very different paths.

Amardeep Parmar: So, don't compare yourself to others, because if you compared all of them to each other when they were 30, they'd have been doing completely different things. But they're all happy with where they got to today. [00:10:00] And, you mentioned at the beginning there about how you had a British agent help you at the beginning.

Amardeep Parmar: What's all been your experiences, especially in the early stages of your careers, with the community supporting you? Did you have that support? Did you have people who didn't believe in you? What was that like? Um, to 

Jeff Chowdhry: be absolutely honest, it was non existent. Uh, I was very lucky there was one chap. who took, took pity on me, probably.

Jeff Chowdhry: And so it gave me the opportunity to move into an area which was completely dominated by other types of people. And, um, but looking back now, maybe 25 years ago, if he hadn't given me that one break as a result of one conversation, I wouldn't have done what I did, and I wouldn't be here today. And so, as I said earlier, I want to do the same for some people.

Jeff Chowdhry: If I can, on my journey, just one break, one introduction, one connection, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. But, you know, I just feel it's important that I do, I do that because I did get that one person who [00:11:00] helped me. 

Dimple Patel: So, my community, Asian community, is based up north in kind of Leeds, Bradford. Um, and, you know, I went to Cambridge, so for a short amount of time I was a bit of a golden child, until I quit that job, um, to start the coffee shops.

Dimple Patel: And it became, every time I went up there, there would be a lot of, you used to work at Goldman, But now you wipe tables. And I'd be like, well, yeah. And I clean toilets as well. But, you know, everybody was doubting me. They couldn't understand why I'd done what I'd done. Um, it just felt too much of a risk.

Dimple Patel: And, in all honesty, I wouldn't say that that went away. For a good seven, eight years. It took the exit, and people would say, Ah, actually maybe that did work out. Um, but then afterwards Now 

Amardeep Parmar: I realise how big 

Dimple Patel: Trigger was. Yeah, so even now, I mean, I will get people that say, [00:12:00] Oh, you've stopped working, have you?

Dimple Patel: Um, or, you know, make me feel like, conversely, if they know that I am working and I'm running a company, I'm a terrible mother, um, or the first thing they ask me or remark on when they see me is whether I gained any weight since the last time they saw me. So, I think to some degree, my community is probably not the most entrepreneurially focused when it comes to particularly women, um, and work and job.

Dimple Patel: But I'm also, you know, I'm quite stubborn, so the more they were turning around and saying you're not going to be able to do this, the more it gave me a point to prove, and I think that has fueled me quite a lot, um, especially over those initial years where it's a huge amount of risk and you spend every other night thinking that you've done something kind of stupid and actually can be quite public and everybody's gonna see you fail.

Dimple Patel: Um, so now I'm very comfortable in myself. I don't take any notice of what they say. But I think a [00:13:00] lot of people, particularly in that situation, would maybe have just packed it in and sat down. And I think there'll be a lot of lost opportunities, particularly within that community, that could otherwise have built incredible companies.

Dimple Patel: I was in private 

Jay Gujral: school. Um, I didn't actually have any new friends or desi friends at private school. But it took me to get to university and then my placement year where I actually realised that Having the Indian network, or having, like, my Asian community network was so much more powerful than I actually ever realized.

Jay Gujral: Like, going back to my placement year at Lenovo, um, my manager then, Sanjay, he, he literally mentored me through my first year. I was like, this guy's brilliant, like, I was, he's great, I left the company now. We still message now, um, and that's, what, 10 years later? Like, we're still friends, he still treats me like a, like a close friend.

Jay Gujral: That, I find that really odd because when I go through now, like, say if I think about my WhatsApp connections or people that I message, like, I've got a handful of, like, Indian [00:14:00] friends or, like, Desi friends that are really If there was ever a problem, I know full well I could message them and they'd be the ones we're actually having a true, meaningful connection to.

Jay Gujral: Like, um, at the back we don't speak much, but when we do speak, randomly it's like, Oh crap, that's the same conversation like this. It just doesn't feel like we've, we've, you know, lost touch, for example. Same as well, and you know, there's other people in the room that when we, when we talk it just feels like that.

Jay Gujral: You're not speaking to strangers again, whereas I don't think you get that with many other connections, many other people. Now I think that's what's quite cool about having a community like this 

Amardeep Parmar: as well. So it's good to hear that you did get the support, well at least two of you did. I think we hope to get more in the future now.

Amardeep Parmar: And why do you think it's, for example, we've, me and Gavin talked about where there's always organisations for different diversity groups, but there's very rarely anything for Asians in the start up space, in the scaling space. And why do you guys think that is? I guess it's speculation, but why aren't we doing more?

Amardeep Parmar: It's a good 

Jeff Chowdhry: question. I mean, there was one other stat, [00:15:00] um, which you could have put on there, which is actually even lower, which is female Asian entrepreneurs. You're, you're a rare, very rare, um, example. I think it's, you know, we haven't got all day, and there's lots of reasons why that might be the case.

Jeff Chowdhry: But, you know, in our particular case, I mean, deliberately, we're actually looking all the time for female entrepreneurs. Um, you know, because they're often much more sensible than blokes, basically. And I can say that because my daughter's sitting in the front row here. But no, seriously, I think it's, it's, it's a, I don't know what the simple answer is.

Jeff Chowdhry: I think it's the usual barriers to entry and traditional, you shouldn't be doing this, you shouldn't be doing that, et cetera, et cetera, which is absolutely yes, in my opinion. And, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I just love to see more and more female entrepreneurs, British Asian female entrepreneurs come forward and be successful, I think.

Amardeep Parmar: Just [00:16:00] on that as well, so one of the things we're trying to do with BHQ is really consciously Like, fine, those British stations from Mosul are doing well, because there are people like Dimple, and like, a lot of people had never heard of Dimple, and I want everybody to hear about Dimple. Because if you see role models such as Stimple, it shows people, it shows, like, women that you can get to this stage.

Amardeep Parmar: But more importantly, as well, it shows all the investors and the men that Asian, British Asian women can do this. And we need to just really change that perception, whether it's conscious or unconscious, that there are so many people doing well, and obviously, there's a bunch of podcast guests in this room right now as well.

Amardeep Parmar: I just want to do one more 

Jeff Chowdhry: thing, which I think you mentioned just in your conversation, that this can do. This can do is So important. If there's one thing you may need to take away from this room is that you can do it. My daughter said, right, she was the first British Asian to swim the English Channel.

Jeff Chowdhry: Okay? She's got it right. And, uh, she'll tell you about her own story, but she, uh, raised a huge amount of money for [00:17:00] charity. But, she had a can do attitude that actually, I don't have to be male. I don't have to be, you know, non Asian, and I can do it, and she did it. I mean, so, it applies to every single person in this room, that actually, you can do it.

Jeff Chowdhry: You've got to have your persistence, um, but you can do it. And that's, that's a very, very important message. 

Dimple Patel: I think I would just add to that as well, which is, a lot of British Asians are children of immigrants. And I think the way that you are brought up, there's an element of sensitivity that has been built into how you think about your career.

Dimple Patel: So a lot of people were brought up looking at being lawyers, or doctors, or accountants. And it's a very difficult conversation to break that belief, because it's something that our parents held so tightly. When they came and actually all of a sudden you're turning their lives to work [00:18:00] upside down by taking this huge risk Um, and I think it's making also, you know, the people around you comfortable with the decisions that you are making.

Dimple Patel: And ultimately that doesn't always happen. Um, but now we have much more, and many more examples of people that have been successful. People that are building businesses, both male and female. It's amazing seeing how many people in this room have just, how many women have reached out to me and said, Can we just have a chat?

Dimple Patel: I want to talk to you about my business idea. That didn't exist 10 years ago. You know, you didn't necessarily have the same social media presence that you have with say, LinkedIn today. But you also didn't have this availability of mentors as such, or people that have kind of come before you that will respond to those messages, and say, yes, let's jump on a call.

Dimple Patel: So I think it's this changing mindset, A, in terms of how we think about our careers, um, and also the fact that we don't have to be doing the same career. Basically for the rest of our working [00:19:00] life. But also, when you send somebody a message, A, there's someone there that you can speak to, and B, that they will reply, and they will jump on the call with you as well.

Jay Gujral: I think, to Dimple's point there about the family element, I think that's also probably a problem isn't it, why we don't have the community potential to have it. I think a lot of us as British Asians are, British Asian entrepreneurs are, as very, very headstrong individuals. Almost like, you don't need help in the beginning, or don't want to ask for help.

Jay Gujral: Because you're kind of built like that. You want to do something and almost prove everyone wrong, rather than ask for help, or built something with someone else. So, where does the community element ever come in at that point? It doesn't really come, it doesn't really happen. You start building and then you realise you need people.

Jay Gujral: And this is kind of where we're at now. We're like, oh actually, we probably could have a community around this now because we're all, you know, there are people doing very, very well and doing great things. And I think that that's kind of, I mean, that's my, that's my opinion on it. I rarely [00:20:00] see, um, British Asian entrepreneurs with a co founder.

Jay Gujral: Rarely, in my opinion, from what I've seen. And I think that's because you kind of, like, go on and build it and, and think about, you know, the next bit. I think it's more of a fear of failure that drives you more than anything. So that's kind of what my, my experience 

Amardeep Parmar: of it. So thank you for all those answers.

Amardeep Parmar: And I'm going to open the floor up to the audience now, just bearing in mind the time. So if you want to ask a question, if you put your hand up, and if you could try and keep it short as well, just so we can get through a few questions. So if you give like a one liner about who you are, and then go into a question.

Amardeep Parmar: So the question there was about what was the opportunity that Jeff got five years ago that enabled him to do what he's doing today. Yeah, I mean the 

Jeff Chowdhry: opportunity was a very simple choice. Um, I could spend four days on a golf course. Or not. Right? And if you've ever seen me play golf, it's absolutely useless.

Jeff Chowdhry: So, um, yeah, so, [00:21:00] so Reece, my son, had set up the, the VC business. It was, um, about the size of this desk where we started. And, uh, he needed some help. Basically, in code, that was he needed some free labour. Um, he needed some people, he needed some people with grey hairs. Unfortunately, there weren't any, so he got me.

Jeff Chowdhry: And, um, and that's it. And the rest is history. I mean, you know, I helped him. I got in the world of startups. I love technology. You know, I funded the first AI business 40 years ago. And that was it. But it's back to the original thing, really. That actually sometimes these opportunities come across your desk or come across you in life that you think actually you're one.

Jeff Chowdhry: I'm just going to grab that and see what happens. And if I was genuinely not interested, or I didn't enjoy it, I'd be back with a golf course, and I'm off. So, there you go. 

Amardeep Parmar: So the question there was about, there's now different funds set up for a certain demographic, [00:22:00] so there's gender, ethnicity, and what Salim was asking there is, what are the panelists thoughts on that, should founders take capital from those funds or not?

Jay Gujral: I think for me personally, I if, if I was a founder and like say if I was a female founder and I didn't know what to do or where to go, and I wanted a VC who was going to guide me through the challenges of being a female founder, going to someone like Pink Salt be perfect because I know those guys and I know that I'd learn a hell of a lot from them as well as having them guide me through.

Jay Gujral: I, I don't have any issues with it personally. 'cause I think that you are, you're choosing your VC or the VC is choosing you because you both. Can help guide each other through the next however many years of being together because you understand each other's problems if you're, you know, a black founder and you're going through something or whatever it is, and you want to go for a for a VC that understands what you're going through, that probably will help you on your journey.

Jay Gujral: If you're going to a VC that doesn't understand what you're going through, [00:23:00] they never will, you're probably going down the wrong path then. Because, you may have some nuances in your daily life, like, again, being an Indian, there are going to be different things that I go through, whether it's like, you know, Diwali at certain times or whatever, you know, whatever it is, you know, the five day long wedding that I've got a plan for next year, not everyone's going to understand that, but an Indian VC might, and help me along.

Dimple Patel: Um, so I see, I see why you asked the question, because I think there's an element with those kinds of funds that it's like, Oh, you only got the money because you're a female founder and you're brown because, you know, the other big bun probably wouldn't have given it to you. The way that I think about it is, ultimately, your business is going to do the talking for you.

Dimple Patel: Your business is going to validate whether you deserve that seat at the table. So, you need to build your board composition with a group of people that are going to help you [00:24:00] get your business there. And I think when you have people that align with the difficulties that you're going to face, who can work with you collaboratively, who will go the extra mile with opening up their network, Supporting you through your challenges, and also probably giving you a little bit of extra leeway because things don't always go to plan.

Dimple Patel: You're most likely going to build a more successful business off the other side of it. Than if you had a big name, flood you with loads of cash, but as soon as your business hits a little bit of a road bump, kind of wash their hands of you and walk away. So, fundamentally, take money from people that are going to help you build an incredible business.

Dimple Patel: and let the incredible business speak to what you do. 

Amardeep Parmar: So, first one was, she said that how often people don't get the support from their families or people around them where they're telling them they're not special and how do you keep going when people are telling that around you and when you have that moment where you might give up, how do you keep going on anyway?

Amardeep Parmar: And then the other [00:25:00] question was for Jeff in particular about, well, he got a shout out for being an incredible dad, and off the back of that, what can other dads in this room, what other dads are listening? do to encourage their children, especially their daughters, I guess, to go and fulfill their dreams.

Dimple Patel: Thank you. So, there's a couple of ways that I think about kind of dealing with, um, doubt, um, and people that are kind of almost waiting for you to fail. The first is that you meet different people across your life, across all the different stages. So when you're at university, when you're starting your first job, when you're starting a business.

Dimple Patel: Those people, to some degree, are more aligned with the stage of life that you are at than say your family was. Your family are amazing, but whilst most of the time you would expect them to unconditionally support everything that you are doing, that is not always the case. So the first piece I would say is find, find those people.

Dimple Patel: Find people that are facing similar challenges to you. [00:26:00] Start sharing them, even if it's over a coffee. Um, and start surrounding yourself with other people that are facing similar situations to you. If anything, it will make you less special, because you will be surrounded by other people who also think they're special and you can't pull each other out.

Dimple Patel: But that becomes your initial support network. So they are the people who are going to face the same difficulties that you are facing, both personally, when you're scaling a business, it's not all kind of professional. So that's the first piece. The second piece is When I was looking, when I look back on last year, so when Made.

Dimple Patel: com went bankrupt, we had just sold Truva to them four months earlier, and we got told to shut down. At that point, it was pretty much the end of the road. Like, I had a lot of very senior Fairly powerful people telling you to shut the business down. The way that I thought about it at that point, and I think will be really useful going [00:27:00] forward is, do you still have something to contribute here?

Dimple Patel: Is there still a reason to push back? And by pushing back, are you still going to be able to make a difference? Are you going to be able to change the outcome? And I think that's really important because some businesses will close. And you know, that is the reality of it. So part of being an entrepreneur is also knowing At which point, it's the end of the road.

Dimple Patel: But, by assessing that situation, saying, actually, even if there's a 20 percent chance, this is what it looks like, and this is how I'm going to get it there, I at least need to give it that opportunity. And once I've done everything I can, If it doesn't come through, at that point I would walk away. So it's taking something that is quite ambiguous and trying to put in some element of milestones against it so you're able to make your decision making a little bit more binary.

Dimple Patel: Um, so those are the two pieces. 

Jeff Chowdhry: That question's the hardest of the all, but I [00:28:00] don't know. Um, I do believe in the principle of SCEVE. Does anyone know what SCEVE stands for? S K I? It's called Spending Kids Inheritance. So, are you laughing? Okay. Um, you know, to be honest, there's no rocket science, there's no magic.

Jeff Chowdhry: There was, but everyone, there's no parent's manual which says actually on day 27 of the year you do this. The only philosophy that my wife and I have Um, worked on since the day they came to the board. Well, since it could walk. Is whatever you want to do, we'll back you. But you've got to do it well, as well to your ability.

Jeff Chowdhry: So, you know, we didn't particularly knock top of the class. Did you do a great job? Did you work as hard as you could? Even if you weren't that good? Did you run as fast as you could? Did you put in the effort? When you, when you, when you set up a business? Is that what she wants to do? Did she put the time, the effort, the passion [00:29:00] into it?

Jeff Chowdhry: Yes. It's just swimming or whatever. So that's all it is. I mean, it's just really, whatever you do, whatever that is, back to 100 percent but do it to the best of your ability. That's all. 

Amardeep Parmar: So I'm getting a lot of daggers from the back of the room that we need to wrap up. So Thank you so much to the panel for coming on today and sharing your experiences.

Amardeep Parmar: Big round of applause for them.

Amardeep Parmar: Hello, hello everyone. Thank you so much for listening, it means a huge amount to us. And we don't think you realise how important you are, because if you subscribe to our YouTube channel, if you leave us a five star review, it makes a world of difference. And if you believe in what we're trying to do here.

Amardeep Parmar: To inspire, connect, and guide the next generation British Asians. If you do those things, you can help us achieve that mission and you can help us make a bigger impact. And by doing that, it means we can get bigger guests. We can host more events. We can do more for the [00:30:00] community. So you can play a huge part.

Amardeep Parmar: So thank you so much for supporting us.