The TRUTH Behind The Grief Journey To Bae Founder w/ Amardeep Parmar | The Bae HQ

‍00:00
Divya Talwar
So who is Amar the person?

00:01
Amardeep Parmar
I knew that was coming. I just set myself up for that one.

00:04
Divya Talwar
You set yourself up?

00:05
Amardeep Parmar
A lot of people think I came out of nowhere. Well actually no. I had millionsof views, I had tens of thousands of followers, I had all this thing which is aSilicon Valley based audience. So when I started the BAE HQ, I already had thismassive experience because of what my dad did then. That's the only reason I ammy time today. If my dad encouraged me to quit my job, I probably wouldn't havequit and we wouldn't be having this conversation. I wouldn't have had any ofthe conversations I've had. And there's so many people who don't have that intheir families, who don't have that in their friendship groups.

00:31
Amardeep Parmar
So if the BAE HQ is that thing that is that support system for the people whodon't have the support I had, then I'm paying forward that belief my dad had inme in 30 years time are the people who built organisations which havecompletely changed the world, who wouldn't have done it if we didn't exist.Today on the podcast the tables are turned and I'm the guest. For those of youwho don't know me, I'm Amadeep Palmer, the co founder of the BAE HQ which isnumber one community for British Asian entrepreneurs, operators and investors.We've got Divya Talwar here, he's a BBC investigative journalist to probe me,tell my story so that you guys understand where this all came from, who I amand why I'm building what I'm building today.

01:14
Amardeep Parmar
I hope you enjoy this episode and it's interesting to be on the other side. Andthis podcast is powered by HSBC Innovation Banking.

01:23
Divya Talwar
So Amar, the tables have turned. You're in the hot seat today. How do you feel?

01:27
Amardeep Parmar
Good actually. It's easier being on this side, I think.

01:30
Divya Talwar
Oh really? Well let's see. So Amar, to understand you better, what are some ofthe earlier experiences you've been through that people should know about?

01:40
Amardeep Parmar
When I was growing up it was. I grew up in East London around Ilford, but itwas always this situation where you knew what you knew. So that was myenvironment. 95% Asian. I spoke like Bernank Chung. You're right. Yeah, yeah.How's it going? But that was just normal and I think that environment and howpeople interacted with each other, I'm glad that I had that environmentsocially as bits where it's tough and things like that, but it was you Got usedto a certain kind of environment which meant you could have fun, you could havedifferent things which then when I went to other places it meant that I hadthis different perspective which I'm quite happy about. That I had school inone kind of environment.

02:16
Amardeep Parmar
My university was Bath, which is completely opposite in many ways, but becauseI had both, it means I can interact with people better. I think it makes a hugedifference. And even looking back like earlier times, I think I just did somany different things on as a kid and I'm very lucky that my parents obviouslyallowed me to do that where drive me to karate, to cricket, to football, topiano, all of those different kind of things that it's a real privilege that Igot to do that and that's because my mum would drive me around and take me tothose things. But all those different experiences meant that I had this widerperception than many other people did at my age.

02:48
Divya Talwar
Maybe you mentioned your parents there. What influence did your mom and yourdad have on you?

02:53
Amardeep Parmar
I think it was always a case of they didn't push me, but then I naturally hadthat push in some ways and obviously because of the situations I was in then,because I was used to high achieving, I would continue to do that and it'd beweird in some ways where say for example with karate, I did karate throughoutmy GCSes, my A levels and they would encourage me to do that because they'relike, oh, you shouldn't just be working all the time. So it was almost veryanti Asian. Some ways of usually your parents are telling you to always studyand things like that. Whereas mine were like, oh no, you need to make sure youtake a break, make sure you do these things.

03:27
Amardeep Parmar
So I was very fortunate in that regard about the balance and how they viewedthings rather than just being like, oh, you need to get the best grade so I canshow you off. They trusted me to get the good grades that I could get but theyalso seemed me to have that more well rounded balance to me as well. So I thinkit's very fortunate in that regard.

03:41
Divya Talwar
And what impact do you think that had on you?

03:43
Amardeep Parmar
Because I didn't have the pressure from other people, I almost put the pressureon myself. That's one of the things I haven't quite worked out of. Why did Iput so much pressure on myself and why do I continue to do that? Because forsome people it comes from their parents, right? Their parents push them so hardas a kid so they continue to do that where for some reason I'm Just somemasochist that puts as a pressure on myself and enjoy and thrive in that kindof situation. So because they gave me these opportunities, I think what effectit had is that I know what I'm capable of. Because I did all these differentthings, I know that I can do those things. If you never really had thoseexperiences, then you have a smaller idea of what's possible.

04:18
Amardeep Parmar
So I think that's one of the big things that the way they parented me gave meis that like, oh, yeah, why can't I do that? Whereas maybe other people weremore pushed down a particular path. My dad did want me to go to Cambridgebecause he'd always say it's like a journey down the M11 or wherever it is. Butwhen I didn't get that or I was on the borderline of that weather, there wasno, oh, you've disappointed me or anything like that. It was just, it would becool if you do it. If you don't do it, then we don't really. I'm also quitelike, I'm quite a good kid. I never really got in trouble, so it does help.Whereas if I was a bit of a trouble child, then I'm guessing would have had adifferent experience.

04:50
Divya Talwar
That's quite rare, isn't it? Because you often hear young British Asians sayingtheir parents did have a lot of input into what they do. Come and become adoctor, become a lawyer, become an accountant. That's rare that you didn't havethat growing up.

05:04
Amardeep Parmar
I think there was an element of them wanting me to be a doctor at some point,but it was never forced upon me. So I did biology, chemistry, maths andeconomics, which is basically me just pushing down the decision. So instead ofhaving to decide at 16, I was like, okay, with these A levels, I can decidelater on. But they never really said you have to do a particular thing. And Ithink economics is not one that would trigger problems because there's alwaysdifferent career options with that. My dad himself was an accountant, so. Buteven then he'd never really pushed me to go down the accountancy route. I didwork experience there, which mainly really just moving boxes around.

05:39
Amardeep Parmar
It wasn't actually accounting, so my CV when I was 21 might be lying a bitabout what I actually did there, which I think many kids do as well. But it wasme moving around boxes and files and things like that. But that experience atleast showed me working in the city and things like that. But, yeah, they neverreally pushed me towards a particular career and at first I Had no idea what Iwanted to do. And even now I'm changing my ideas all the time about what I'mdoing.

06:02
Divya Talwar
So you do economics at university. What was the plan at the time?

06:06
Amardeep Parmar
Well, the plan was to get rich and retire by the time I'm 30. So that didn'tquite work out. It's actually quite weird. So I had this very specific ideawhen I was at university and I don't know where I got it from or why it was sospecific, but it was go into investment banking or something like that, becomea multimillionaire by the time I'm 30, then retire and become a teacher and thewhole idea. So I used to teach karate, so I taught karate for about five years.I was black, but when I was like quite young, so then I was able to teach quitea lot, so I was like, oh, that's a good way to make a difference. Right.

06:35
Amardeep Parmar
And then obviously growing a bit older when it's got close to 30, I'm like,wait, do I actually want to be a teacher? I've said this for a long time andthen I realised maybe that's not the best path for me. But, yeah, that's theidea at that time was just do economics to get a job that would emulate themoney. Not really understanding exactly what that was. I didn't really carenecessarily what that was. But then as time went on, so I ended up going to thebank of England for a placement year and that was obviously a good experience.But then straight after university, I actually struggled to get a job out ofuniversity. So I interviewed loads of different places and ended up going intotech consulting because I actually misunderstood because the job title Ithought was more business consulting.

07:16
Amardeep Parmar
So it's a complete fluke. And I think there's many different points from mylife that just complete flukes that make sense in hindsight and made it seemlike I have some master plan when I really didn't.

07:25
Divya Talwar
So what was tech consulting like? Because it feels like a world away from whatyou're doing now.

07:29
Amardeep Parmar
So it's interesting because the tech consulting stuff does actually play intowhat I do now because I can do all the website, I can do all of the. Like, Idesign the logo and things like that. Right. Because I have that moretechnological background.

07:38
Divya Talwar
Nice logo.

07:39
Amardeep Parmar
Thank you. Thank you. I was very proud and initially it was a lot of, like,enterprise. So there's a reason why I kind of skim over this when I talk topeople, because it's. I always found it quite boring because actually theskills it taught me were really useful. So if you. What I was doing was verynerdy, like coding, database stuff, upgrades, infrastructure, especially in theearlier days, it was a lot around those areas. But because it was something Iwasn't necessarily interested in when I talked to other people within thecompanies and the business teams about it, I break it down quite well insomething that was more understandable because I didn't understand it myself insome ways.

08:15
Amardeep Parmar
So because I didn't know I didn't have a computer science background, that Ihad to use more terms I could understand, which enabled me to then work betterwith the business teams within those companies because I just talked to themlike people, rather than come from this more nerdy background. Not there'sanything wrong with nerds, but that was why I was able to do it, because Iwasn't such a technical driven person. It meant that I quite enjoyed being ableto talk to people in the business about what I was doing. But then as I gotfurther on, then I took more of a lead on the design side and that was about. Ithink I enjoyed a lot more towards the end. So I was there for about sevenyears, but towards the end I was the main person on the design software.

08:51
Amardeep Parmar
So I was teaching other people how to do that and was taking the lead on thosedifferent areas. And I designed projects like Vodafone, Heineken, Panasonic andI was able to kind of. It was more creative, which I quite enjoyed on thatdesign side. But I still had the technical knowledge and the problem solvingbits there. But the main thing I learned from that is just being able to talkto people about things that are quite complicated in an easy to understand way.And that's essentially what writing is how do you take concepts which are quiteconfusing to different people, made them easy to understand. So that was a coreskill I think I got from consulting that filters into everything else I do.

09:25
Divya Talwar
And while you were there, you had your hand in different pies, differentprojects outside. Tell me about some of those.

09:31
Amardeep Parmar
So while I was there, so I always had stuff on the side as well. So I did crosssince I was about 23, 24 before coming into work of black eyes and necessarilythe best thing for a client. And there's one time I got kicked in the jaw and Icouldn't talk for about a week. So then I had to kind of be a bit more carefulabout, okay, I probably should pull back a bit more from that side of things.So it became on that side, car art was my really big passion when I wasyounger, but it just didn't really match up with the corporate world and what Iwas trying to do there.

10:00
Amardeep Parmar
And there's always this idea that I want to go back into it in the future, butI've been saying that for a long time now, so I've got to be realistic aboutthat. Could be something which I take on again later on in my life and theprojects I work, it was more. There's always something going on, but especiallytowards the beginning, you're kind. I think a lot of people maybe don'tunderstand this, but early credit, nobody really says it. First couple years,you're kind of useless. And I'm very much making loads of mistakes and I wasvery lucky that the people senior to me were correcting my mistakes and helpingme. And I think there's always this idea now.

10:27
Amardeep Parmar
You go into a company and you've come straight out of university and you'regoing to hit the ground running and be amazing straight away. And the realityis like, often you're not that good and it's hard to know that until you get abit senior. And often what happens is that it's what you don't know. Right. Ifyou don't know that this is how it should be done, you think you're amazing.And I think there's a lot of humble pie as I grew up through the ranks, like,oh yeah, I used to do things in that way. It really wasn't a very good idea,but at the time I thought I was so good and the project's there, so I'm notsure what I'm allowed to talk about in terms of the competition stuff. It wasthese things of customer relationship management, right.

10:59
Amardeep Parmar
Which is CRM's extremely boring. But it's the whole thing, how does the systemswork? So that when you, let's say for Vodafone, for example, you go into a shopand you want to buy something, how does it all work in the back end, right? Soyou have to put in your details. How does that get collected? How does that getshipped off? It was all of this logistics and stuff behind the scenes, whichthen very useful for what I'm doing today because the entire website for theBAE HQ, I built it all this, like the content management system, all thosedifferent things because I actually know what I'm doing and how therelationships work between things.

11:28
Amardeep Parmar
And rather than me hiring somebody, if someone is to build the website, probecost 50k, whereas I could just do it because I knew what I was doing. So that'swhere it really benefits on that side.

11:38
Divya Talwar
You're going to get people contacting you saying, hey Amar can you build mywebsite for me?

11:42
Amardeep Parmar
And the rate is like three times what I used to charge now. So it's the wholething. I think with those areas. Sometimes my challenge is that I'm lucky tohave quite a breadth of skills. But by having a breadth of skills, actually itcan lead you in too many different directions rather than really focusing onthe thing that makes a difference. And that's I've got to get better. I thinkmyself is that just because I can do something doesn't mean I should. Itdoesn't mean it's the best use of my time.

12:04
Divya Talwar
And you leave this. I mean, you learn a lot in the tech job, but were youfulfilled? Were you happy?

12:10
Amardeep Parmar
It really varied project by project, and I think so much is dependent one was achallenge, but it was also the people. If I like the people I was working witha client then that made such a huge difference. But it was that roller coasterof like, I'm on this project and it's like I'm going to be six months in itversus, okay, this one's quite interesting. But it just felt so out of mycontrol and I didn't really like that aspect of it, especially towards the endwhere once it gets to a level, I was pretty senior. A lot of the time it's justme leading a project, which can be quite lonely. Whereas earlier on, becauseyou're working underneath somebody, you've got people above you to chat to.

12:45
Amardeep Parmar
And especially as the way that the tech world and consulting world isadjusting, it's often it'll be me at the lead and then an offshore team andyou're just the conduit in between those two things where it's like, is thisreally where I want to head to? And I think for a long time before I actuallyquit and did what I was doing today, or started that path, I knew I didn't wantto do it long term, but I didn't know what I wanted to do. So you're in thiskind of inertia perspective of, okay, I could leave, but what am I going to do?So I might as well stay. And then you start getting good at stuff that you'renot really interested in. I said, well, what am I really doing here?

13:17
Amardeep Parmar
And it was just, I was very lucky that things fell the way they did becauseotherwise I'd been in this career. It's like, I don't really want to do this,but I don't know what else I'm going to do. And I think a lot of people at thispoint as well, where you don't want to start from scratch on something, but theworld has changed. So before you start from scratch in a corporate world towork your way up the ladder again, whether I started from scratching somethingand then just taking it wherever I want to go now, and I didn't know thatexisted, like, I had the idea five years ago that I'd be running my own thing,it was just not even there was never crossed my mind that I'll go and workmyself, I'll go and build my organisation.

13:51
Amardeep Parmar
And I think a lot of people don't realise that. So five years, yeah, literallyfive years ago, I'd never written anything, I'd never put my name out there.The idea of podcasts, I never thought I'd have the guts to do that. So in thislast five years, I've completely changed. And you wouldn't know that unless youknew me from before.

14:08
Divya Talwar
So let's take a step back. What made you take the leap of faith and quit theday job?

14:13
Amardeep Parmar
So it was. I was very fortunate in some ways because I was able to earn so muchmoney on the side before I quit. So the initial spark was New Year'sresolution. January 2020, I start writing online, New Year, New Me, that kindof crap. And you will do it. And you know, like, oh, I'm going to go to the gymevery day. I don't go to the gym every day, but I did it for a little bit. Butyou know how you think, okay, I'm going to do this new thing. And the ideabehind that, which is I was reading a lot and I was getting into reading,blogging, so I was like, okay, I think I can do this, but it was more of anintellectual stimulation challenge kind of idea.

14:46
Amardeep Parmar
More than I'm going to earn loads of money because I knew the stats, right? Thestats are realistically, nobody earns any money from content creation. Mostpeople are broke. If you can earn $100 a month, you're doing top percentile.You can't live at $100 a month. But I got very lucky that the first article Iever wrote earned me, I think, 3K. So when I had that initial introduction,then the pandemic hit a couple of months later, I suddenly have loads of freetime on my hands where I can't go out, I can't do anything else. You can doZoom and the games but it's not very fun, is it? So. And then I had this thingthat I was suddenly good at that people praising me for and people encouragingme on.

15:19
Amardeep Parmar
So by the time it came to June 2021, I left my job, I'd already been earningquite a significant amount on the side and validated it. But at the same time,I don't think I would have quit if my dad hadn't encouraged me to do so. So I'dkind. You know where you. Anybody's had a corporate job, right? You kind oflike, whine and rant a lot about like, oh, this boss. And like, oh, I can't dothis and I can't do that, and, oh, I'm going to quit. But you know, you're notactually going to do it in many ways. Like, people just have this ventingaspect, and I think I've been doing that for quite some time of like, oh, yeah,I'm going to do this. But I didn't think I was actually going to do it myself.You're just venting.

15:53
Amardeep Parmar
But then my head was like, just go and do it. And I was like, but what do youmean? And then I asked him, what about pensions? What about. Like, I had noidea any of that stuff worked. I was like, okay, if I quit. But then whatabout, like, how's it going to look at my CV. It's like, I haven't updated myCV for about five years. It's totally irrelevant to me now. But when you're inthat kind of position, you don't think it was all these things that scare you.And the fact that my dad was like, you'll be fine. We work out, quit, just do.Just took me by surprise. And I remember I took a week off in February 2021,where I made a presentation.

16:28
Amardeep Parmar
I made my business plan, my business model, and I then presented it to myfamily in the living room. And then my dad's like, that was cool. But I waslike, I was already telling you to quit, so you don't need to convince me. Andit was almost this whole exercise I went through to try and convince myself.And by the time I left, then I think there was just so much. I remember justbeing so anxious at the time about, what am I an idiot here? Right? I thinkthat was the thing I was so worried about. Everyone's going to judge me. I'mthe person who's gone from good grades to good university to city corporatejob. And then, oh, now you're a writer. So who is Amar as the person? I knewthat was coming.

17:07
Divya Talwar
So who is Amer?

17:09
Amardeep Parmar
The person I knew that was coming. I just set myself up for that one.

17:11
Divya Talwar
You set yourself up.

17:13
Amardeep Parmar
So it's. What's really interesting is before my dad passed, obviously a coupleof years ago, right before that time, so much of my writing and so much of mycreativity was all around self awareness, right? It was me understanding myselfand the different elements of why I do what I do. Even example, me being ableto tell you that big reason why I was worried when I quit my job is thatinsecurity around how people perceive me. I'm quite understanding and knowmyself quite well in terms of my flaws. And I might still do things that I knoware dumb, but at least I know it's dumb. Even when I was younger, I used to goon holidays a lot. So I've been to about 50 countries. Why have I been to 50countries? I enjoy travel. Yes.

17:49
Amardeep Parmar
But also I can say I've been to 50 countries because then people think, oh,wow, so cool, right? And I knew that about myself. I'm doing this out ofinsecurity too. And now the interesting challenge is it's trying to rediscoverwhat is the point of any of this, right? Because I've got many of the statussymbols right now. I've been on Billboard, that stuff, right? But for me, it'sthis idea of I'm really driven by the challenge of the BAE HQ, right? And it'squite difficult for people to understand that we haven't had that. But for me,it's this idea of I'm really driven by the challenge of the hq, right? Thestrategy side of things like, oh, this is actually fun. But then it's also justthe dumb jokes and stuff, right? That I don't get to do enough anymore. And.

18:26
Amardeep Parmar
And that side of me of just being able to be a bit silly and do stupid things,I miss that side. And it seems like playing football every week with my matesand things like that, like dancing, obviously I love Bhangra. I love thosethings too. Spending time with family and it's really trying to get thatseparation in place more and more where it's okay, the Bay hq, this is mebusiness. But there's that stuff outside of things with my other interests,with the dance, with the Bhangra, with the football, all these kind of thingstoo, that I want to also nurture. And spending time with family and friendstoo, that aren't necessarily just friends to me because I'm potentially usefulto them.

19:02
Divya Talwar
And where does that work ethic that you've got come from? Because often wetrace it back to our parents or the people around us. Where does yours comefrom?

19:12
Amardeep Parmar
The earliest example I can think of this is when I was at year seven, yeareight for somebody size of massive goody two shoes and I don't quite know why Iwas such a suck up people, but I was. So there was like a Year 7 award forcommitment and I won that and the next year I won it for attainment and it wasthe top person in the class. Right. And I don't know why, for some reason Ijust really cared about this stuff and it probably does initially come frominsecurity. Okay, it comes from insecurity. I know why this is, right? So it'sme trying to prove myself, me being okay, I'm useful, I'm important, whatever.

19:45
Amardeep Parmar
And then later on I think it comes down to it's being in the environment I wasin, right, so one IN PUNJABI So it's all about strength, all about puffing yourchest out and all those kind of things. Went to an all boys school in Ilford.So obviously in that very like toxic, well say toxic masculine, but there waslike whatever, right, where you're constantly surrounded by other people. Youneed to show your tough, show your. There's like the alpha kind of game, right?In some ways and I definitely was an alpha. But you need to show that youweren't weak more than anything else. And I think that need to show that Iwasn't weak really carried over into many different things. And obviously I didkarate, but I had quite significant injuries like early on and being able to.

20:23
Amardeep Parmar
I just trained for like stupid injuries that people shouldn't train throughbecause I needed to prove strength and show that strength. And there was someelement of, okay, yeah, there's fighters and stuff that go in an Ilfordwhatever. But it was some element of just fear within me of why it wasn't asbad as I think I had it in my head. But for some reason I was more scared aboutthe environment, about like the knife crime and stuff like that, where I wasscared of that stuff. So I had to go out of my way to show strength. And Ithink that carried on for a lot of my early like adult life, especially until Iwas about 25, 26.

20:56
Amardeep Parmar
And then I think what started to flip for me there is especially growing up inthat kind of environment, mental health wasn't a thing, right? There was you'rea weirdo or you're crazy. That was it but what I started seeing is that some ofmy most successful friends, on paper, or I say on paper, on Instagram, right,where the people who. They're very popular, they're very cool or whatever likethat, I started realising that quite a few of them had quite traumatic thingsthat happened to them. And it broke my mentality of what status is in someways, of. I realise that so many people who are high status, they're doing thatbecause they're trying to cover up something which happened to them beforehandor they maybe had depression or they had some kind of anxiety.

21:37
Amardeep Parmar
And that really fit my whole the way I thought about the world, because so muchof my world admitted to the end, like, you need to show you're strong. You needto show you're strong because that's how you survive, that's how you get ahead.We're saying, like, actually some of the people I consider really close friendshad actually had this stuff that had been quite serious happen to them. Andsome people I knew had been through like really severe bouts of mental illness.I said, well, if they've done that and I look up to them, then maybe I don't.Like, maybe this isn't a weakness thing. Maybe I don't need to think aboutthings in that way. And again, I think that's what triggered that initial boutof me reading a lot more.

22:15
Amardeep Parmar
So I started reading a lot more books, I started getting into the blogging andthat's what led me down that path to starting to write. And I think the turningpoint was about, I want to say about 25, 26, where the whole idea I had aboutthe world started to shift a bit of. Actually, this is more normal because youread about in the news, right? Oh, this happens and that happens and mentalhealth and stuff. But when you've grown up in an environment where you can'tshow that, you don't really take it seriously. But I think that was the thingthat shifted for me over time is that, oh, okay, people I know have got mentalhealth issues, people I know are antidepressants. So actually there isn't thisneed to show strength. You can ask, talk about your emotions and showvulnerability.

22:59
Amardeep Parmar
We just want to give a quick shout out to our headline partners, HSBCInnovation Banking. We hope you're enjoying the episode so far. We just want togive a quick shout out to our headline partners, HPC Innovation Banking. HSBChave got the team they've built out over years to make sure they understandwhat you're doing. Because you might start off and try to use a traditionalbank, but they don't understand what you're doing, you're just talking to an AIassistant or you're talking to somebody who doesn't really understand or whatis you've been trying to do. So if you want to learn more, check outhsbcinnovationbanking.com. You mentioned kind of showing your vulnerabilitiesin your writing. So if you want to learn more, check out hbcinnovationbanking.comyou mentioned kind of.

23:42
Divya Talwar
Showing your vulnerabilities in your writing. Stuff you'll post on socials, forexample, you will talk about your trauma and your grief specifically aroundyour. Your father's passing. How does that help you?

23:55
Amardeep Parmar
In some ways it's a weird thing of it's a responsibility, it's a duty. I see insome ways where. And it's quite frustrating because I think what I did beforemy dad passed, I made a very big point around being self aware and making surethat you don't lie about how you feel. And that got very much stress tested andall of a sudden I had to deal with him quite serious. So it's easy to say thatkind of stuff when you're dealing with the normal everyday stresses of life.

24:22
Amardeep Parmar
But when you're dealing with it in that extreme moment and it's a wholeannoying thing about being self aware and having written and got millions ofviews about writing about self awareness that I knew what was going on, it'slike, oh, like I wish I didn't say that stuff now because now I've got to. Idon't want to be a hypocrite in some ways and I realise I have a platform andthere's also my background now. Right, so you've got black belt and karate,national squad, done obstacle courses around the world. There's so manydifferent proof points I have that gives me that general world idea ofmasculinity and strength.

25:00
Amardeep Parmar
So I see as I've got some level of duty that if I can show that even thoughI've got all this stuff, even though I can put myself through extreme pain andI've done all these different things, that grief is still something which Ideal with and I struggle with, then I have the responsibility in some ways todo that. And it's a weird thing, I don't know if it really helps me. I think ithelps me in terms of clear writing is clear thinking. So if I've got a jumbledup brain but I can write something down And I have to edit it and try to makeit intelligible to other people. That helps me to process my thinking too. Andpeople say, for example, journaling and what they didn't realise when I was aprofessional writer.

25:40
Amardeep Parmar
Journaling is not an escape because writing is associated with work. To me now,writing isn't a fun thing for me now, it's writing is my livelihood, right? Andwhen I'm publishing it publicly, then I'm crafting it. I'm thinking about,okay, how do I make this as the point as clear as possible. And in the processof doing that, I'm also clearing up my own thinking. And I think that's what Iadvise anybody who wants to get into writing. The likelihood you're going to goviral is basically zero. Don't get into it because you're going to be rich,because you're not. And most people fail. And I was a massive anomaly in termsof me being able to quit my job for the writing income I was making.

26:19
Amardeep Parmar
But the amount I learned about myself and being able to get clearer about myown thoughts, that's the real value. And if you can do that and whether it'sgrief, whatever you're dealing with, that's a huge thing that people underplaythe importance of.

26:33
Divya Talwar
So it's interesting that the idea for the BAE HQ was actually while he was inhospital. How was your father's death a turning point in your career?

26:44
Amardeep Parmar
So it's interesting that the idea for the Bay HQ was actually while he was inhospital. So the background to the story is, so I was in New York for holidayor business trip, wherever it is. So meeting people I'd interact with in thewriting world. And while I was out there, he then went into hospital for Covid.So I had to fly back. And until the day actually passed, I think that's themost traumatic day because in mid air I didn't know when I landed whether Iwould be alive or not. So trying to explain that to the airport and not beingable to get my words out and just. Yeah, it was, that was very. Just.

27:19
Amardeep Parmar
It's hard to even explain now, right, of how that feeling is, right, of justtrying to tell them I need to get on the next plane because of this. And I'msaying this now, I wasn't. I was over, like I just couldn't function. And hewas in ICU for a couple weeks and it was meant to come out a couple of weekslater and they'd given us a date. Then he got pushed back a little bit. Andthis is where the idea for the BAE HQ came about with my co founder and hadthis idea. So during that period, there was no thought in my head that hewouldn't make it out. And this is where the idea for the BHQ came about with myco founder and had this idea.

27:50
Amardeep Parmar
And the idea was my dad was going to get involved in it, so he would be one ofthe first podcast guests. And I'd done podcasts before, like a hundred otherplaces, but he'd never really been involved in that stuff. But with my dad atthe point he was. So he just sold his business and things like that. It was,can he. Now he wants to be in that situation where he can contribute and giveback. Obviously, if things didn't work out like that. And I think once hepassed, you're floundering around basically, right? Of what's the point of anyof this crap, right? Like, I've interviewed the founders, Netflix and Twisted.So what? Like, it sounds good and it opens up doors for me, but does that makea difference to my life? Does it. Have I changed anybody's life?

28:29
Amardeep Parmar
Because those interviews, maybe they have, I don't know. But that can't liveoff that forever, right? It's got to be, what actual difference am I making?And so much of my life at that point was very virtual. So it's a lot of thingswith people in America. And the reason why I never moved to America, despitethe audience stuff I had there, is because I knew about my dad not beingparticularly well, so I didn't want to move across the world. And then I wentto Newark for two weeks and that happened, right? So it's kind of. It had thatstress on me, right?

28:55
Amardeep Parmar
But once he passed and we had a lot of letters from his clients, he was anaccountant, he worked his way up from nothing, through an old school law firm,got right to the top and then by the time he passed, he was right at the top ofthe organisation for like 10 years. So we got loads of letters from his clientsbeing like, oh, 10 years ago or 20 years ago. Your dad's the reason why I had aroof over my head, his reason why I could feed my kids, because he put in theextra work when he didn't have to. So some of my dad clients were huge and theywere very famous and household names.

29:27
Amardeep Parmar
But he also had a lot of smaller clients that were people from where he grew upin Forest Gate or his family friends, people like that, a lot smaller clientsthat in terms of the overall picture of money, he shouldn't have even botheredtaking them on but he had all these people that came from the same backgroundhe did that helped lift up. And when those people, you're seeing them at thefuneral and so many people even recently or somebody who he met, who I neverknew, but they said that my dad was their accountant and family friend and hewas talking about how my dad had helped them so much in their career and givethem introductions and got them into different roles and things like that.

30:01
Amardeep Parmar
And I think it was such a huge role my dad played for so many people thatobviously I know some of it. But you didn't talk about it because you just. Whywould you talk about it? Right. So there's always things that were unsaidbecause it was a surprise. It's annoying thing because he was in hospital. Yes.But we didn't think he'd actually pass. And he never acted in that way ever.Right. He was always invincible in his eyes. And I think it's common like oldIndian person thing to do, right? Indian dad, things like, yeah, he's going tolive forever in terms of own head. But then seeing all of that, it's like,okay, now I have this platform which is very American heavy. So when I startedthe BAE HQ, I already had this massive experience.

30:43
Amardeep Parmar
I had all this thing but just a Silicon Valley based audience. So when Istarted the bhq I already had this massive experience. But what shifted for methere is, okay, now this is the main thing and I cut a lot of my clients, I hada lot of the clients I was writing for and obviously with the reach I had, Icould charge quite a lot for these clients. So I cut all of these people thatwere. I could essentially print money in some way through them. I haven't, Ididn't pay myself for a year and a half after that and there's a lot of painthat went through that. But that was the thing of what, like it's just tryingto find something to cling onto.

31:18
Amardeep Parmar
And the idea I can have in my head is because of what my dad did then, that'sthe only reason I went to him today. If my dad encouraged me to quit my job, Iprobably wouldn't have quit and we wouldn't be having this conversation. And soif the BAE HQ is that thing that is that support system for the people whodon't have the support I had then I'm paying forward that belief my dad had inme. And there's so many people who don't have that in their families, who don'thave that in their friendship groups. And so if the Bay HQ is that Thing thatis that support system for the people who don't have the support I had then I'mpaying forward that belief my dad had in me.

31:43
Divya Talwar
Sounds like your dad was a huge inspiration for you.

31:46
Amardeep Parmar
Absolutely. And I say, well, I've been to 320something people, but it's like Inever got into my dad. And that would be the one that would obviously be verytelling. And there's. I think one of the things I think my dad did extremelywell and I don't know many of the entrepreneurs I've interviewed have donethat, is he had this amazing separation between work and personal life andsomething which I wish I could learn from him because I'm not very good at it.He just had that amazing separation when it's home is home and he's present.When is I work is at work. It would just never. He just had that amazingseparation when it's home is home and he's present when is I work is at work.And I don't know how he did it. I don't understand. And it's that gap of.

32:32
Amardeep Parmar
I wish I could learn it from him, of how he was able to have be such a goodfamily person, but also clearly be very good at his job as well.

32:40
Divya Talwar
Is that the one question you'd like to ask him if you could have had him on thepodcast?

32:45
Amardeep Parmar
I think I never understood how selfless he was and how he could be so selfless,where there was a time he was in hospital and he was not looking very good. Andthen the first thing he could say once he had me up to talk for a couple ofdays is, oh, how's mum doing? You're in hospital. Like, it's just. He justalways had thinking about other people and I don't get how he was able to be soselfless and to always think about other people. And I think that's the thingthat I just don't understand because I think so many of our role models todayare very much about themselves and they might in the media or in public talkabout what impact they're making, things like that.

33:21
Amardeep Parmar
And it's even with the BAE HQ philosophy for this is that in five years time, Ihope nobody even remembers that I built it because I built an organisationwhich stands on its own two feet and people trust it. I think sometimes nowpeople want to do good things, but they want the credit for it. And it's evenwith the BHQ philosophy for this is that in five years time, I hope nobody evenremembers that I built it because I built an organisation which stands on itsown two feet and people trust it. And if I'm still involved as a chairman orwhatever like that, it's not I'm the guy, it's just I'm one of the people inthere. But it's the organisation that's trusted that people believe in.

33:59
Amardeep Parmar
And in 30 years time, yeah, it's cool that I made it, but actually peoplearen't coming there for me or for my person or my personality, because we'vebeen able to attract a tribe of people who are continuing on that good work.And that's the thing that I see it as, it's not about me. It's weird becauseit's about me to start off with, to get off the ground. But if I don't let goof that, then it becomes a cult, not a community. And it's a very clear thing Ihave in my head. Like the work that you're doing here at BAE HQ?

34:28
Divya Talwar
Why do you think that's important? Like the work that you're doing here at Bayhq?

34:32
Amardeep Parmar
I think it comes down to there's so many people who've been to our events andspoke about how lonely they are and how much they've struggled. They're tryingto do something and nobody believes in them. And I was just very fortunate. AndI just see it as that idea of paying it forwards. And if you look at the macrolevel as well, where there's a lot of agents who created small businesses andit's very popular in the 70s and 80s, corner shops, petrol stations, butthere's a lot fewer been able to build out those larger businesses. Andespecially look at the big problems of today's world, like the health sector,the climate sector, if we don't have the voices from people like us in there,then the solutions aren't going to match that too right. And there's so manyinnovative ideas.

35:10
Amardeep Parmar
There's people who right now who are listening, who maybe have an idea if theyworked for something truly believed in, can make such a huge difference topeople's lives. But they won't start it because they haven't been conditionedin that way, because people in their family wouldn't believe in them or peoplein their community would judge them. That's the thing I think about success ofthis whole thing in 30 years time, other people who built organisations whichhave completely changed the world who wouldn't have done it if we didn't exist?People won't go on a podcast 20 years time and say, oh, I start because Ilistened to this one episode of the BAE HQ. We won't know. People won't go on apodcast 20 years time and say, oh, I start because I listened to this oneepisode of the Bay hq.

35:42
Amardeep Parmar
But that's the idea, right? Can they get an internship for us when they're atschool? Can they then get mentorship from us? Can they listen to the podcastand learn? Can they come to our events? And it's the whole idea of that perfectperson or the perfect age now where they can come through the entire systemwith us and what impact and what difference can they make that I don't evenknow about? I have no idea what their ideas are, but they can change the worldand they wouldn't do it otherwise.

36:07
Divya Talwar
Have you had a moment already where someone has said, look, it's made animpact?

36:12
Amardeep Parmar
One of the interesting things is I'm trying to anonymize this. There's somebodywho said that when they came across us then they were in a very low point intheir life and they didn't know if they were going to continue. And because ofwhy we included them and I didn't know it at the time, but we got them involvedin from things and we helped them out. Then they met new friends, they got newinvolved, they got a community and it gave them the push to carry on where theywere very much considering, like more like, do they end their life essentially,right? And when somebody says something like that, to me, that makes a waybigger difference, like, oh, I got 10 more followers because of you. I gotlike, I didn't give a crap out of that, right?

36:54
Amardeep Parmar
But when there's people out there who are really struggling, who've been ableto do that, and the thing is, we're not a mental health charity, right? We'renot any of that stuff. But that's the element of what the community can do. Andit's more soft. It's not so it's not going for the jugular. But I think we canoften underestimate how much feeling like somebody belongs really matters topeople. And there's other elements too. Again, where people have listened toepisodes and they said that, again, it's encouraged them to go and build whatthey wanted to build. And there's people who came to our events and then quittheir job soon afterwards. And we've done it before at other companies wherepeople have said, I've had this idea for years, but I never thought I could doIt.

37:34
Amardeep Parmar
But then now I've made a bunch of friends and I think maybe I can. So that is abinary switch, right? What's it like hearing that, hearing people say this madean impact in my life. And there's other people who maybe don't have theirregret or aren't gonna have their regret in 20 years time because of what we'vedone.

37:53
Divya Talwar
What's it like hearing that, Hearing people say this made an impact in my life.

37:58
Amardeep Parmar
It's weird. It's very surreal. And in some ways, I still see us as the babydays. I see us as. We've barely done anything so far. So sometimes when I get alot of praise and people tell me a very common thing, people like, oh, your dadwould be so proud of you. And for me, it's just. It doesn't. I understand theirintentions, but it doesn't necessarily help me because it just highlights theabsence. But it's also. I just see this as we've barely even begun. There's somuch more work we can than we should do. And I don't want to get complacent.And I think it's so easy to get complacent from praise and, oh, even say awardsand things like that.

38:31
Amardeep Parmar
We haven't nominated ourselves for any awards because I want to win an award orif we win an award, I want to because it's deserved and because people believewe should have it, rather than we've just entered ourselves in every possibleaward we can get, which is what a lot of people do. And I see it as we'rebarely even begun. There's so much more work to do. So it's lovely to get thepraise now, but I don't let it get to my head because even say for thebillboard, for example, right? So what I'm on a billboard, right, Is can I get50 people from my community on a billboard? Can over the next 10 years, canthere be so many people who've had their names heard and a role model for youngpeople because of what I've done?

39:07
Amardeep Parmar
That's way more important to me than me on a billboard.

39:10
Divya Talwar
I'm sure you took a selfie with you in that billboard, right?

39:13
Amardeep Parmar
We had a photo shoot. But even with that, it was interesting that I think thereis some level of numbness that comes with the whole grief side things too.Right. So none of the wins feel massively high to me. It's okay, that was cool.Next thing. And I don't know if I was like that before, if it's a post griefthing or not, but I definitely think that's an element. But it's also anelement which keeps me from getting too complacent, getting too big headedbecause I just see it as this. I also am very lucky. I'm speaking to peoplelike you and speaking to so many people who've done incredible things that it'svery difficult for me. Like, oh, I'm everything, I'm the dog shit. Right.Because actually I can constantly talking to people who've done amazing things.

39:51
Amardeep Parmar
So for me that's normalised, right. I'm normal me. It's very normal for peopleto do incredible things. So I'm constantly inspired by people that get talkedto every week.

39:59
Divya Talwar
So at the time recording this, it's just after Father's Day and my dad'sbirthday. Like a few days ago.

40:03
Amardeep Parmar
So at the time recording this, it's just after Father's Day and my dad's.

40:08
Divya Talwar
Birthday like a few days ago.

40:09
Amardeep Parmar
Yeah. So right now it's also an element of. There's. Because people think aboutauthenticity, right? And authenticity. There's a difference between how I amwhen the cameras are off and things like that versus like there's no point inme doing this interview after just ball on the floor. Right. That's not. Yes,that'll be authentic, but it'll be pretty useless. And that's the thing that Ithink sometimes people struggle with, is that everything I say today is true.But would I also be completely. Like a few days ago I'd be in bed trying to napmy way through the day to get through Father's Day, just to get over and donewith. And that's what I was doing.

40:47
Amardeep Parmar
I was trying to sleep my way through the day, spending time with family,watching tv, trying to just work out how I get through this day so I can. Okay,now it's the next day and there is that dissonance which is quite difficult todeal with. I think of me being on stage, me being in front on camera withwhat's going on behind the scenes. And I'm very open about what's going onbehind the scenes. And that's the way I try to make sure that I'm not beingfake in any way. But there is still that weird element of me performance versusme relaxed and chilled and with family and that's quite hard to marry up of.How do I. And something I'm learning at the moment, how do I connect those twothings?

41:25
Amardeep Parmar
And one thing I'm doing intentionally is that during the summer period, I'mvery much slowing down in terms of the work stuff and meeting up with peopleand things like that. Because I know this is a tough period for me because itstarts to get into the death anniversary time and the milestones just bringthings into light again. So you can distract yourself, but when it's themilestones, you don't. It's hard to distract yourself. And I'd say I'm waybetter today than I was this time last year, but am I good? Is quite debatable.And it's. It's also. If I was, like, amazingly happy. And so I think that wouldbe a weird reaction. Like, it's not a human reaction, right? Like, this istotally normal for me to react in the way I am. That's what I try and tellpeople as well.

42:09
Amardeep Parmar
Is that me trying to spin this into, oh, I'm so happy. And like, my. It's liketwo years since my dad did. Of course I'm not bloody happy, right? But it'sbeing able to accept, okay, this is a sad moment, but that doesn't mean I can'talso do things that make me happy. And it's trying to find that right balance.There'll be more good days than bad days. And I think especially say. I wouldsay March to about May this year was probably the happiest I've been in quite along time. And then now we're getting to the grief cycle again of themilestones. But then I know that I had that period which was really good. So Iknow myself, I can be like that again. And it just. It's that whole challenge Ihave between performing me versus actual me.

42:48
Amardeep Parmar
And I want to have that separation a bit stronger as well, of who's actually myfriend from this world versus who's in the business sense. And trying to gaugethat. And it's a very complicated thing to work through. And I'm still tryingto work out who to trust and who not to trust in some ways as well, with thatmore deeper stuff.

43:05
Divya Talwar
And you say it's not helpful when people say, look, your dad would have beenreally proud of you, but have you ever stopped to think what he would havethought about what you've built so far?

43:13
Amardeep Parmar
It comes back to even what I said when I was at school, right? My dad beenlike, you're working too hard. Take more breaks. That's what he'd be saying.And he'd even say that just before he passed on, what I was doing with thewriting side. My dad was always that person who's more about, are you okay? Asopposed to, I'm so proud of how well your business is doing. And it's not thathe would be happy about the billboard, be happy at these different things, andhe'd be proud of that. But at the same time, that wasn't what made him happy.He'd be more happy if I was happy or if I was doing things where he's like, oh,okay, like, yeah, he. And that's what I'm very fortunate about. Right. Becausemost people don't have that. It's unconditional.

43:51
Amardeep Parmar
It's not based on my success of whether or not it was proud of me. He was proudof me regardless. And that's a challenge of when I'm explaining that to people.Because he wouldn't really care about this stuff I'm doing in some ways. Right?You would have seen care. But it wouldn't be if I wasn't doing this. If I stilldo my day job, he'd be just as proud of me. And that's something which, like Isaid, it's a lot of. It's driven by my own weird masochist sense of trying tohelp people who are trying to do something bigger and better. And it's notdriven by, I need to prove to my dad that I was. Can do something. And I knowthat's different for a lot of people. A lot of people are driven by.

44:27
Amardeep Parmar
They need to prove to their parents that successfully. Whereas my mom was. Sheknows what we do. She's been to a couple of events and she's proud of me,whatever. But that's not the most important thing to her. She's more concernedabout, am I happy, what am I doing, am I eating right? Those kind of things.And it's very important to have that separation, I think, where especiallypeople very close to you say, whether it's family, whether it's your bestfriends, if they're only happy for you and you're doing well professionally,then that's not really. And that's one of the big things I've learned fromthem. Right. Whenever I treat people in that way, the people closest to me, Idon't really care what they're doing professionally. I don't care about the.Like, I care about their promotions if it makes them happy.

45:05
Amardeep Parmar
So what is next for you then?

45:10
Divya Talwar
So the big thing, like I said, is the next five years is how do I transitionthe BAE HQ from being dependent on me to making its organisation stand on itsown two feet? Then.

45:12
Amardeep Parmar
So the big thing, like I said, is the next five years is how do I transitionthe Bayhq from being dependent on me to making its organisation stand on itsown two feet? And it sounds weird that I was trying to remove myself from it,but I see that as massive success. If I can build something which can stand andsay, if I work like a baby, right, if I need to still be in charge in 30 yearstime, I failed as a parent of this company. And if I can grow it so it'sstanding on its own two feet and it can look after itself, then I've beensuccessful in terms of my leadership. And the example I always use is AlexFerguson at Man United.

45:47
Amardeep Parmar
But Alex Ferg's most successful manager ever in Britain, right. And the thingis, as soon as he left then the club hasn't won anything major since then. Theaudience cares. But Saliksberg's most successful manager ever in Britain,right, And the thing is, as soon as he left then the club hasn't won anythingmajor since then. It's had all these different problems and obviously I'm notgoing to try and better than him, but I think there's a mistake he made thereof like that transition phase. Me and Gurvir started this, but it can't bedependent on us because then what about if I get hit by a bus tomorrow? If Iwent to this to last for generations, I've got to be able to make a transitionsuccessfully and it's always thinking about that in advance.

46:18
Amardeep Parmar
Me and Gebra started this, but it can't be dependent on us because then whatabout if I get hit by a bus tomorrow? This is done. And that's the key thingI'm thinking about is how do we make it in that light and once we've got thatposition, I can just do whatever I want for fun, right? And that's the positionwhere we get into the future, where I can start getting back into my karate, Ican start doing these different things where I have this level of freedom. Andagain, I'm very lucky in terms of what we can do through this, which shouldgive me financial independence and things like that, where I'm not botheredabout how much money we're making, things like that. It's more about what do Iactually enjoy and that's going to change.

46:56
Amardeep Parmar
What I say today I enjoy is probably completely different by the time I getthere, but that's part of the excitement, right? Amar, thank you for thisconversation and for trusting me to do your job for the day. Whereas at themoment there's a level of duty and responsibility which can be quite a heavyburden sometimes, right of I need to make sure that I'm representing a hugenumber of amazing people and there's a burden that comes with that andresponsibility that comes with that, too.

47:17
Divya Talwar
Amara, thank you for this conversation and for trusting me to do your job forthe day. In keeping with tradition. Quick rapid fire questions. So the stat Ialways bring out is that , I was th I was the second fastest person on Mediumafter Barack Obama.

47:30
Amardeep Parmar
So if we're not talking British, Asian. So the stat I always bring out is thatthe second I was the second fastest person on medium after Barack Obama. So Ithink it's got to be a part of that would be pretty cool.

47:39
Divya Talwar
That's cheating a bit, but I'll take it. How can people help you right now?What is it that you need?

47:47
Amardeep Parmar
The biggest thing is just what you say about us when we're not in the room. Soif you can tell your friends about us, if you can tell your WhatsApp groupsabout us, if you can tell your friends to come to our events. And that's one ofthe really heartwarming things we've had, is how many people come to an eventand ask them, like, how did you find out about us? And I said, oh, my friendwent to your last event and they told me to come to this one. They said, you'vegot to come. And I think that's the best thing anybody can do is listening. Isthat if you enjoyed this, if you enjoy what you're about, tell a couple offriends about us. If you tell two friends and they tell two friends, thatexpansion grows very quickly.

48:18
Divya Talwar
Thank you. Thanks, Amar.

48:21
Amardeep Parmar
Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. See you next time.

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