Exactly How This VC Analyses Pitch Decks w/ Malika Arshad | Future Planet Capital

00:00
Malika Arshad
We're about half a billion AUM and 160 companies.

00:02
Amardeep Parmar
That's Malika, VC at Future Planet Capital. She breaks down exactly how shelooks at decks.

00:09
Malika Arshad
100% do internal and external due diligence. Internal due diligence beingthings like looking into the data room, looking into products. Interviewingobviously the founders, people around them and being able to actuallyunderstand is there legs behind this? When you're going out with an idea,proving that out is really important and that is key for you to understand yourmarket and if it is real or not. Also about being realistic. Right. You need tosee what can you do within the next 12 months. How realistic is that? Or areyou just in clouds right now? But I think it goes a long way when you're ableto demonstrate how you're actually doing it. Right. And how you're buildingtrust and how you're building value. I think speaking to your customers is soimportant.

00:50
Malika Arshad
We need to feel confident that this product or what you're building is going tohave legs and how do we nail that? If you feel confident in the fact thatyou've actually spoken to the right people.

00:58
Amardeep Parmar
There's much more in this episode. So if you're thinking about fundraising,make sure you pay attention. Everyone knows you're being judged. When you getyour pitch deck right or when you showcase, especially the pre seed level, youhaven't got any traction. You just show off on you, right?

01:17
Malika Arshad
Yep.

01:17
Amardeep Parmar
And you see the team slides and as you know, some of them are good, some ofthem are not so good. As an investment, you're looking at these decks, you lookat somebody who's the team behind the company. What are you judging them basedon? What credentials matter?

01:29
Malika Arshad
Yeah, so we definitely look at different, various factors in there. So stufflike university is an obvious one. What did you do? What did you study? How isit relevant to the role that you're doing right now in the specific team? Wereyou part of any societies and leadership role? Which means your qualities matchyou being a CEO, for example. Do you have advisors on the page? If so, are theyrelevant? What industries are they from? Why did you have them on there? Ithink sometimes some pages have information that is not necessarily needing tobe there, such as, you know, what you did in your third year over here or whereyou did your gap year. It's not necessarily relevant.

02:03
Malika Arshad
You need to keep it focused on what you think will beneficial for your companyand how investors want to see you, which is things like, we want to see whatyou've achieved if you've done certain projects, if you won any particularawards, or whether it's a hackathon or whether it's technical abilities thatyou have specifically. Stuff like languages may even go a long way, because weunderstand you have that marketability to be in different markets as well. ButI think you need to think carefully who you're putting on the page. Why arethey there? And if it is you and your team, who are the people we are going tobe speaking with, who's pitching on the day as well, when you present this tous, why aren't they there?

02:38
Malika Arshad
For example, when it's also your advisors and other people that you're workingwith on the team page, I think it's quite relevant for you to contextualise whyyou've chosen these specific people and. And how they're going to add valueinto your team as well. And then that kind of builds a frame of context forwhat is relevant throughout your whole deck as well. That allows us tounderstand actually that you specifically, who are talking to us, arespecialised in this sector, for what reason or why you have chosen the spaceand how it's relevant to you. And then throughout your whole deck as well. Ithink it makes sense for you then to talk more broadly about the market.

03:11
Malika Arshad
How have you understood it from the various years that you've worked on it andhow this product fits into it, and what problem that you're solving? I thinkthat's the biggest thing we really look for. What is the problem? Is itrelevant enough? Do people care about it, are going to be customers for it? Andif so, why is your solution good? Even if your solution is not the most perfectsolution in the world, which is fine because you will change it? Do we believein you as an individual and what you've demonstrated and shown about yourselfto us in this pitch to make us believe that you will have the right qualitiesto pivot or change or be able to adapt to what we as investors think it shouldbe going to, or even you as advisors, where it should be, but with.

03:48
Amardeep Parmar
But with that team, what I often see there. So you mentioned quite a fewdifferent things about what's interesting, what's useful. What I usually see onteam slides is just here's their name and here's a bunch of logos of placesthey've worked at.

03:58
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

03:59
Amardeep Parmar
And how much value does that add? Is it if you see someone's deck and they say,oh, I've worked at Google and Deloitte or whatever it is, does that matter toyou? Does that mean anything?

04:06
Malika Arshad
To some extent. I think having market companies clearly can be an indicator ofsuccess because we then think, okay, what connections were you able to make inthese few years that you had worked there if you did an internship versus ifyou did like 10, 20 years in a certain place? Of course that has differentweightings and we recognise that, but I think it does add to a level ofcredibility that you may have. Again, it's not essential because we sometimeslook at founders who kind of have been able to, in a way, bootstrap and startfrom the ground up to be able to do what they're doing right now throughdifferent projects or independent ventures, which is again really exciting andshows a level of kind of serial entrepreneurship that they've been time andtime again proven to work through it.

04:42
Malika Arshad
But I think what's useful for us as investors, if we've seen you worked at acompany for X amount of years, chances are we will know someone at that companywhere we'll be able to get a reference from them on what they thought aboutyou. So it can work in your favour as well as potentially not in your favour.But I think it matters to the extent that you are able to demonstrate you'velearned something from them. And interestingly, sometimes we have had caseswhere we've seen founders kind of work in places like some of the big technames. But because in those organisations you don't necessarily do the thingsthat you would do as a founder day to day, meaning A, B, C, D, F, G. You dovery much specific defined roles.

05:20
Malika Arshad
That doesn't necessarily mean that you will be more qualified for a certaintechnical role than someone who's had to build it completely from scratchwithout any experience or without any, you know, specific background in a largeorganisation. So the answer is it does matter. It does hold value andcredibility, especially when telling your story. But it's not everything thatwe judge. We look very much at the product itself and the kind of detail behindit to determine if it is good or not.

05:48
Amardeep Parmar
So as you mentioned there, it's all about the context.

05:50
Amardeep Parmar
Right.

05:50
Amardeep Parmar
Because, and I see this quite a lot and it's some people are going to feel likecalled out here, but there are people, for example, that have on their profileX Google. But if you're there for like a summer internship like 10 years ago,is that really relevant to how good your startup's going to be? Right.

06:05
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

06:06
Amardeep Parmar
But one thing your other mentioned earlier as well is about the university andthe fact that plays into things.

06:10
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

06:10
Amardeep Parmar
Can you talk about that too?

06:11
Malika Arshad
Absolutely. So I think there is definitely statistical evidence that suggeststhat certain universities whereby they've had many founders or unicornscorrelate to a certain amount of success. And that's why a lot of, you know, alot of VCs and investors look to those universities like your typical Oxford,Harvard, MIT, Cambridge, Imperial Kings, UCL, etc, because they have thoseinnovation ecosystems that permit different companies being able to emerge andalso allow students to actually create them. So when you have these factorswhere you have the people, you have the stakeholders, you have the connections,you have the advisors, there's a lot available there right on your plate. So,so naturally it makes sense that these have a better chance of success.

06:53
Malika Arshad
So we do look at those in a way that is slightly more, not necessarilyfavourable, but it is allowing for more opportunity to potentially come from aninvestment. But that's not to say we don't invest in companies across differentuniversities or even non target universities, or even potentially people whomay not have gone to university because they have been able to build somethingfrom the ground up as well, and they have their own skill sets too. But I thinkit's important to see beyond just the universities, where are those spaces orthose innovation ecosystems like Silicon Valley for example, or in the EastAsian Tigers, or in the Cambridge Oxford ecosystem where you have a lot ofopportunity and people around you developing the same thing.

07:37
Malika Arshad
So there's that knowledge transfer between different organisations which isquite exciting because it means you are building something in a space with yourcompetitors, meaning you're all going to be in a sense brilliant and is justthe one who executes it the best.

07:49
Amardeep Parmar
Yeah, and even looking at that too. So you mentioned about university and Iagree as well, because one of the challenges is if you don't come from theseuniversities, what do you then do?

07:57
Malika Arshad
Right, yeah.

07:58
Amardeep Parmar
And as you said, it's one of the factors involved. But I think it also kind ofgets you, let's say you were the president of a entrepreneurial society atuniversity, but then you don't appear to have any network, you don't have anycontext off the back of that, then it's like, well if you did that then whydon't you have these things? Why don't you have advisors, why don't you haveearly investors? So it's also that context thing too, where, okay, based onyour background, where you've got so far, like why, like if you have such agreat entrepreneurial background, why are you here? Why didn't you get funded?Those kind of things also can be sometimes a question too.

08:34
Amardeep Parmar
And have you got any examples of where you can see in someone's found abackground which been such an obvious no brainer that they're really good to dothis. So one example I have is someone who's been in the podcast. There was aguy called Rhim who was leading product at Revolut for financial crime and thenhe's then created an AI financial crime startup.

08:54
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

08:55
Amardeep Parmar
So it's like a very clear, obvious line. Okay. If you decide I worked atRevolut, you could work at any part of Revolut. But him working in that team inhis particular role makes him very good at what he now does. Do you find thosekind of links?

09:07
Malika Arshad
Yeah, definitely. There's been a lot of instances where so a lot of thecompanies we invest in are very kind of hard technology or science andtechnology specific based organisations. One that springs to mind is we have acompany in the maritime industry that basically creates kind of technology forships. Right. And the CEO of the company, he worked for many years specificallyin a company in that specific industry. And that level of expertise, that kindof operator background is really valuable because it means a person understandsthe product quite well.

09:42
Malika Arshad
So that definitely does help a lot for a founder because it shows that youdon't necessarily need, you know, perfect Oxford, Cambridge background orwhatever if you've been able to kind of hustle your way through and really seehow the engineering works, how the technical development is or how you reallybring a product to scale to market. And then now you're looking to do thatyourself. You already have the badges of honour and like the stripes ofsuccess, whatever you want to call it.

10:09
Amardeep Parmar
And looking at the problem as well, you mentioned how that's so closelyconnected to the founder.

10:13
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

10:13
Amardeep Parmar
And the relationship with that too. What do you want to see there? What do youwant to see when someone's telling the story about the problem, how they foundit? What is a good way or what's a good story or narrative that you want tohear in terms of the way they structure it?

10:25
Malika Arshad
I think one that has stuck with me is I attended an event and there was afounder called Ahana, she developed an app called Clear, which is kind of askincare based one and it was based off her own personal struggles with acneand skincare. And I think being able to connect with an audience who everyoneonce or twice in their life or many times in life will have experiences withskincare problems or, you know, a market that people can really relate to. Ithink building on that and then connecting it back to yourself and why youthink that solution was valid is really powerful.

10:59
Malika Arshad
So similar I've seen at a pitch event I attended where there was a founder whowas looking at the transfer of knowledge and when you start a new job, you haveno idea what to do sometimes and there's loads and loads of manuals. How do youpossibly digest all these manuals and understand it? Again, that's a problemthat everyone probably has faced once in a while and you can't always just askpeople all the time. So it's a way in which AI is able to help you actuallycondense that information in a chatgpt like function and then you can ask itquestions owing this job. How do I solve this issue if I have it and it readsall the available kind of non verbal and resources it has to do that.

11:36
Malika Arshad
So I think contextualising information like that, problems like that, wheresomeone can relate to it is really valuable. Even if it's in a sector that'slike, you know, very deep tech, like an AI problem, cybersecurity, everyoneworries about scams, everyone worries about these issues. So I think it's beingable to connect with an audience and having that level of personability as afounder to convey that story.

12:01
Amardeep Parmar
And do you find founders on average are good at doing that or what's yourexperience, the average founder?

12:06
Malika Arshad
I think it depends particularly on sector by sector. I think sectors like fastmoving consumer goods are much more easier because it's kind of a day to daything that you're able to experience when it comes to stuff like aquaculture,you know, like fishes and like farming and things like that. I think you reallyneed to reach the right audience and the right investors. So a very specificclimate tech investor would be good for that because we understand why it'ssuch a problem and why we need solutions in that space and we can reallyunderstand the need for climate change right now. Similarly, if it's a issue insecurity or an issue in defence, it really depends on the investor you'respeaking to.

12:43
Malika Arshad
And that's why I think it's so important for when you're pitching and findinginvestors and curating those lists to really be targeted in who you approachand why you approach them and be able to understand their investment thesis. Ithink that's the thing people often get wrong and I'm just like we're not theright people for you because you haven't researched enough about kind of whatwe would invest in, why we would do it. So that fit between having a problemand people who care about the problem. It can be the investors or it could becorporates or private people who also care.

13:14
Amardeep Parmar
And you also about the validation.

13:16
Amardeep Parmar
Right.

13:16
Amardeep Parmar
Because you've mentioned about personal story. So if someone can say I reallystruggle from this problem and that's why I'm creating this. So aha is on thepodcast like a couple of years ago and like you said, she's very good atshowing that story. Like this is the journey I went on for so many years and itreally frustrated me that there wasn't this solution and then she's nowbuilding that. But one of the challenges can always be is like, what if it's amassive problem for you but nobody else cares? So how do you make sure thatsomething truly passionate about there's actually a market for it?

13:42
Malika Arshad
Money. See where, kind of see where the money is. One of the main slides thatalways should be on a deck is the market size, the addressable market, thetarget market, the serviceable market as well. And of course within that youget so many different players to which the market would appeal to. But who doyou actually care about? And when you can size that up in terms of opportunity,in terms of growth, how big it's going to be in the next few years, anyinvestor would turn their head and be like, okay, this is where we could be orwhere we should be. And they'd even kind of consider if their investment thesisaligns with it or could align with it. So I think that's a very, I guess, bluntway, but a real way that investors want to see outcome.

14:23
Malika Arshad
Because at the end of the day, our main objective is to get a financial returnin most cases. So we obviously care about the problem, but we care about howmuch money is the problem going to make us.

14:35
Amardeep Parmar
Hello. Hello. Quick interruption to let you know a bit more about BAE HQ. We'rethe community for high growth Asian heritage entrepreneurs, operators andinvestors in the UK. You can join us totally free@thebaehq.com/ join. There.You'll get our CEO structure in your inbox every week, which is content, eventsand opportunities. You can also get access to our free startup fundamentalscourse by joining. Let's get back to the show and you can look at that. Right,So I say basically every deck I've ever seen always has like some massive tam.Right?

15:13
Malika Arshad
Of course, yeah.

15:13
Amardeep Parmar
When reality is not really, it's just the way that they've calculated it.

15:16
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

15:17
Amardeep Parmar
And how should people be thinking about that of like what actually is themarket. And how are you checking that as well? Because if you're seeing TAMcoming in using data yourselves.

15:25
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

15:26
Amardeep Parmar
What do you want to be seeing as TAM? Because I think sometimes you hear peoplesay, like, oh, my time is at the fitness market. And like, you're not theentire fitness market.

15:35
Malika Arshad
No.

15:35
Amardeep Parmar
And you're not if you're creating an app. That doesn't mean you can includeclothes in there and all these kind of things.

15:39
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

15:40
Amardeep Parmar
So how do you think about that on when you're judging what somebody has inthat. That slide?

15:44
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

15:44
Amardeep Parmar
Because often I just look over it. I was like, they're going to make somethingup here. So there's no point in even looking at it.

15:49
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

15:49
Amardeep Parmar
How do you judge that?

15:50
Malika Arshad
I mean, to some extent it's absolutely illustrative. Right. Because it is anassumption from a top down or bottom up, whatever you want to take. And itdepends again on how every investor decides to calculate or every founder. Andno two get the same term, typically, if you use the same variables or differentones. So I think what I personally care about, when I see a deck and I see aterm is I want to see one. For me, the term is more kind of the futureprospect. This is what could potentially be addressed when this product isproven, when the company has traction, scale and operational capabilities. Thisis what could happen down the line. We could access all of these differentareas. But right now, today, what is serviceable in the next few months, in thenext, you know, years?

16:29
Malika Arshad
Who are your customers? Are they going to be paying for this? And have yououtlined the right opportunity and is that meaningful enough for us? So whilstit's important to have that long term outlook and the big picture 100%, wereally care about the big picture. It's also about being realistic. Right. Youneed to see what can you do within the next 12 months. How realistic is that?Or are you just in the clouds right now with what could be possible?

16:53
Amardeep Parmar
So how can someone prove it's realistic?

16:56
Malika Arshad
How can they prove it's realistic? I think showing a credible pipeline is theeasiest way. If we dive into your data room, even at an early stage, and youhave maybe letters of intent or you have kind of initial conversations thatyou've mapped out with people. We've seen that kind of effort for you to go outand speak to people and validate this product, then that shows to us, okay,this person understands that this market is indeed serviceable and they've goneout to find the right people and contacts within it. They're doing their bitand that's the best thing you can have as a founder. Momentum and traction.

17:26
Malika Arshad
And when you're even pre revenue, even pre potentially product, when you'regoing out with an idea, proving that out is really important and that is keyfor you to understand your market and if it is real or not. So I think that'sthe best way I could imagine demonstrating it. Having that clear, you know,image or even Excel sheet or whatever tracker you may decide to use of. This isthe traction we have, this is how much we could get from it. And we are gettingresults and on.

17:51
Amardeep Parmar
The validation side too. So obviously one of the challenges is you sometimeshave people who've got. They think they've got the greatest idea ever.

17:58
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

17:59
Amardeep Parmar
But you've heard that same idea ten times.

18:01
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

18:01
Amardeep Parmar
So how do you go about that as well of checking? Is this an idea which isactually unique and actually something which is worth investing in or is itjust one person who's got the same idea as many other people? Are you doingthat work behind the scenes to make sure that is this a market which isdefensible and those?

18:16
Malika Arshad
100%, the amount of times I've had to go into IP reports, sometimes even haveto watch YouTube videos to understand what is the specific technology behindit. I mean we actually have an IP lawyer in house as well. So as a VC or as ainstitutional investor, whatever may be, we will 100% do internal and externaldue diligence. Internal due diligence being things like looking into the dataroom, looking into products. Interviewing, obviously the founders, the peoplearound them, external being stuff like looking at references that they're ableto provide that can mean other people on the cap table or advisors or angelinvestors that you may have things like that.

18:56
Malika Arshad
And being able to actually understand is there legs behind this? And is verycommon where we'll see the same idea many times but perhaps a differentexecution or a slightly different product or just like a difference in thesupply chain. And I think one key takeaway I've had and as an investor is oftenthe ideas in the market will all be relatively similar and the winner thatcomes out of it is the person who's able to actually operationally do it themost effectively. And that means whether it's controlling a certain proportionof the supply chain, you know, then they have power and autonomy over that partof it and they can then service to their own competitors as well because theyhave those licensing agreements or whatever it may be.

19:36
Malika Arshad
Or it could be things like they've got on a landmark client or a big corporatethat's going to vouch for them or that's going to really, you know, implementwhat they're doing across a large market. I think that's really powerful aswell. So I think in terms of competition and defensibility, we 100% do diveinto that a lot, as much as we can. It's hard at the early stage of course,because again, how can you put IP on something that's an idea or how can youreally defend it? But a lot of it is in the execution or even in the kind ofroadmap that you have to getting to that defensibility and making sure that noone can replicate the way in which you're doing things.

20:16
Malika Arshad
Because like you say the product's going to change eventually, more or less,you're going to do more stuff, you're going to have add ons on the side of ittoo. But it's how you do it, how you have the leadership, the team around you,the expertise that really matters.

20:30
Amardeep Parmar
And one of the things I think is now annoying habit I've got is wheneversomebody explains their idea to me, it's like, oh, have you heard of thiscompany? And it's a startup pretty much doing exactly the same thing.

20:39
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

20:40
Amardeep Parmar
And if somebody's currently trying to raise capital, especially frominstitutional money.

20:43
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

20:44
Amardeep Parmar
And they haven't heard of a competitor that I've heard of, that's a big redflag to me because you should know about the people. Absolutely.

20:50
Malika Arshad
Yeah. You need to know your market. And the pages that I love most in a deck iswhen they have that market map page. I find those so interesting because thenI'm like, oh, which ones have you missed out? Or like kind of, what do you, howdo you perceive them? Because obviously I've done my analysis. I know what I'mthinking. This one has better product in this way or this one has kind of thiscapability. But from you as an operator in this field, how do you differentiateyourself? I think those are really good to see. So I would always say have amarket map page because it's going to come up eventually when we're assessingyou. In some ways I think one of.

21:23
Amardeep Parmar
The best ones I mentioned earlier too is that if you experience a problemyourself and you've used those other apps or competitors before, then you cansay oh yeah, this doesn't exist because I've tried to solve this problem, butthe other one you can. It's very obvious to me when somebody can explain thatbecause I'm like, oh, like, how are you better than your competitors? Oh, well,this company, the way they've done things, I can't do it. They can't do whatI'm doing because they've got legacy software over it. But they'll know theintricacies when it's. When it's simply like, oh yeah, we're the ones that aredoing it the fastest and the best. And I've had that before when someone, itwas at a pitch day.

21:54
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

21:55
Amardeep Parmar
Where I think I asked, my God, how are you going to win over like a verycompetitive market? It's like, oh, we're going to move faster than the elsedoes. And it's like all of your competitors are going to tell me the samething. It's got to be something in there which is unique.

22:05
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

22:05
Amardeep Parmar
In some way. Right.

22:06
Malika Arshad
I think first mover advantage is definitely like a textbook thing that's given.But I feel like from what I've seen often it's not like, of course it'simportant to get to the market when there's a lot of interest, when there's alot of capital, availability and deep pockets to invest in that space, 100%,you need to be at the stage to be a contender for sure. But I think it goes along way when you're able to demonstrate how you're actually doing it right andhow you're building trust and how you're building value. It's all well and goodto do it the quickest, but if it's not a well executed job, then it's not goingto work. I think someone once told me that a.

22:44
Malika Arshad
An example where you have Microsoft, right, everyone uses say Google Chrome,but you remember the days when there was like Mozilla Firefox, there was Bingis still around, but many different Internet explorers. Now there's only reallylike one or two that actually people use, even though all of them were therefirst. Why? Because they're the most efficient. But it's now what you're ableto build on top of those platforms, that's quite interesting to us rather thanthe competition of those platforms itself. So having that ability to have aproduct, that one beyond its, beyond all of its competitors, actually able todo the best, but then also be a tool for other people to actually use, buildupon and have value created around it.

23:27
Malika Arshad
I think that's what's really interesting because that collaboration aspectmeans you're a strong contender in the ecosystem, not only as a player, solelyby yourself. So being embedded in the space is really important, I think.

23:40
Amardeep Parmar
So I'd love to get the input on this because I think some of the things we'vetouched on so far, it's this one element of some founders aren't the rightfounders for the market. Right. There's also sometimes the founders are theright founders for the market. They just haven't explained themselves well. Andhow much do you think that's an interplay of like is it a lot of times you findthe founders, the way they present themselves to you, it can seem like they'rethe wrong person or they don't know what they're talking about.

24:03
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

24:04
Amardeep Parmar
But it's actually they're just not very good at presenting and when you diveinto their backgrounds more it's like why do like I see that quite a lot wheresomeone's telling me something in questions, then something really good comesup like why is that not in your deck?

24:15
Malika Arshad
Yeah, it happens I think a lot that I've seen with technical co founders. Whenyou have an individual who's like really into the science or really you cantell they understand the product brilliantly and they're very intelligent andcompetent but their pitching and presentation skills aren't just top notch yet.And I think personally I feel that to me it does say a lot in terms of you needto be able to present yourself and picture yourself and get that elevated,whatever it is. Right. But I think it is quite powerful to have someone whoknows what they're talking about. So I always think with that, like with a bitof training, with a bit of support, it could get there to be a lot moresuccessful and be able to actually help them out.

24:54
Malika Arshad
I think that's something we offer as well as a VC and many other VCs do aswell, like training and support. If we like of course we invest in the founderand the team, especially at the early stage, that is definitely the mostimportant part one of them. But if we really like the team and what they'rebuilding, but we don't think say the founders are there just yet, then we canhelp them in terms of giving them training, in terms of giving themopportunities and building and supporting them in that way. And I think that'salso part of believing in the mission because if we believe in you and yourexecution, that said a lot.

25:25
Amardeep Parmar
Another thing too, right, is that sometimes in precede decks people have likethe exit strategy.

25:30
Malika Arshad
Yeah.

25:30
Amardeep Parmar
And when it's such an early stage thing it's like is that useful or not?Because it's going to be usually wrong. Yeah, but do you find that useful whenyou're looking at companies?

25:39
Malika Arshad
I think the mindset we have as a VC regardless is how will we get out of thiseventually? Because obviously by financial investors and if you're investingfrom a fund that has a seven year horizon, a ten year horizon, at the end ofthat we will need to leave one way or another. Whether it's the ideal scenario,which is obviously an M and A acquisition through a strategic or a financial,or if it's like an IPO, which is, which would be ideal but obviously in thismarket it's quite tricky. Or it could be through a secondary, say we need toget rid of, you know, the holding specifically.

26:09
Malika Arshad
I think it is very valuable for us to be able to see what you have in mind asan ideal outcome for your company, whether it's a standalone industry magnet orif it's being acquired by one of the certain players. Having that is alwaysreally relevant and we understand that it's not necessarily going to goperfectly across the next 5 to 10 years because nothing is predictable. Butwhat's more important is how you have mapped out the mindsets to the milestonesto really get there. And that means in year one, what you expecting in yeartwo, what are the revenue expectations that you have in year three, who are youreaching out to? Are your investors potentially your acquirers as well? If youhave kind of strategic corporations on the cap table, do you think down theline they'll do acquisitions like yours?

26:49
Malika Arshad
Because often we've seen in many competitors that we have a pre seed companythat got invested by a massive conglomerate and then two years when they'redoing their series A, they actually sport the majority of the company becausethey've tried and tested their product, they see that it's worked for them.That initial investment was kind of a, you know, trial basis and now they'veproven it out and they've put on a acquisition. So I think it's good for preseed founders to understand that step and that process that anyone will have toeventually go through when they're trying to exit. And I think it shows a levelof maturity in the fact that you understand where this business will go and yourecognise where the motivations are around the table because everyone will havedifferent ones.

27:29
Malika Arshad
But when it comes to getting your money back, that is often where people can bethe most aligned because they want the best outcome for themselves, but thenalso for the company that they've tried to add value on for the whole amount ofyears. So I think at pre seed and early stage level, it is important to be ableto at least answer the question of how you look to exit or the route to exitmore importantly. But presenting that in a deck as well could be quitevaluable. But I think just be careful with the assumptions and careful withwhat you put on the page because being overly outrageous with certain numberscan then come across a little bit naive or a little bit like you don't reallyunderstand how things work.

28:07
Malika Arshad
So I think being on the right balance of conservatism, but also ambition isreally important and having that clear roadmap helps investors see what you'rethinking and have that planning.

28:19
Amardeep Parmar
Before we go to quick fire questions as well, is anything that we've missed outthat you're obviously seeing so many exciting things going all the time. Isthere any other like top tips of founders now of how they can get acrossthemselves well across you?

28:31
Malika Arshad
I think speaking to your customers is so important. We need to feel confidentthat this product or what you're building is going to have legs. And how do wenail that? If we feel confident in the fact that you've actually spoken to theright people and been able to demonstrate that and for the that it can beanything from like meeting them at events, cold calling, sending a LinkedIn,sending an outreach or something. But doing that momentum and traction is justreally important I think for you to be able to build. I think it's important tomake sure you again pivot naturally to the market. You don't need to be soobsessed with your particular solution. But the problem and making sure peopleare on board with that mission is really essential.

29:13
Amardeep Parmar
Thanks so much for coming on today we have to go to a quick fire questions now.So first one is who are free British Asians or Asians in Britain you think aredoing incredible work and you'd love to shout them out.

29:21
Malika Arshad
I think there's a few that I follow on LinkedIn. One would be probably Cinnyfrom Simmers, which is a company that's being, that's built, which does likeready made meals and stuff. And I think seeing that growth and progress onLinkedIn and updates and different things that are being done to the fastestgrowing businesses in the uk, I think is really exciting and seeing the journeythat's been made towards that I think is inspiring for a lot of young people toactually be able to push towards doing what they want to breaking kind of thetraditional routes that you may take into a working world and just taking aleap of faith into a business idea that you have, which I think is cool.Secondly, I think it would actually be Anissa from the Apprentice recently, whowas a runner up.

30:05
Malika Arshad
And I think the reason I like her story a lot is because she is kind of theopposite in the sense that she's had a brilliant academic record, she's workedin very top institutions in the UK as well, but she's kind of gone and done herown business. And through that, I see a lot of value in really seeing how ayoung Asian woman is able to do all the things that are technically right in acareer and still be able to actually work in her own space and be able to do itindependently and build it up from the ground, which is really exciting, Ithink. And it's quite cool to see her on tv because growing up, you know, it'shard to see inspiration, people like yourself on a big platform like that.

30:46
Malika Arshad
So I was rooting for her a lot and I really enjoyed watching it. And thenfinally, I think a founder that I saw speaking recently as well was probablySidi from why Hangry? And it was one of the most refreshing, candidconversations I've ever seen of experiences as a founder, especially a youngbrown woman, female founder in the space, proving out your product, how peopleperceive you, how people talk to you, even whether they think you're credibleenough because of certain biases or hidden kind of observations that they mayhave. And I think that level of determination and dedication to just go aheadand do what you want sort of thing is a good, refreshing reminder for people toactually remember.

31:26
Amardeep Parmar
Awesome. Thank you. So that's. People want to find out more about you and whatyou're up to. Where should I go to?

31:31
Malika Arshad
So, yeah, if you want to kind of learn more about me and see what I'm doing,then you can follow me on LinkedIn. I also, of course, work with Future PlanetCapital, which is a impact venture capital firm investing in the UK andglobally. We're about half a billion AUM and 160 companies and the sectors wedo range from climate change to healthcare to security and sustainabledevelopment, as well as education. So you can follow our LinkedIn and ourwebsite and exciting news from there.

31:56
Amardeep Parmar
Is there any way that the audience could help you today?

31:58
Malika Arshad
I think how the audience could probably help me is I'm always interested inlearning more about the industry, more about experiences that people have. Soit'd be great to connect with people who actually have kind of reports ordifferent data, or if they have experiences in working in the growth space orthe VC space, and how they found transitioning from even a corporate careerinto that or beyond that as well. So connecting with other like minded peoplein the space really.

32:25
Amardeep Parmar
So thanks so much from again, any final words?

32:28
Malika Arshad
Thank you for having me. I'm really excited for the VC landscape. I know thatsounds really nerdy, but I think we're reaching a period where we're comingback to hopefully a lot more liquidity, a lot more activity in the market. I'mreally excited to see all the new businesses being built and coming from aperiod where we had a lot happening in the 20, 21 and 22 space to a massivedip. I'm really excited to see a resurgence in activity and just moreentrepreneurs, more people, more things being built and a lot more disruptionin the space and then attending events to really see and meet people who aredoing that.

33:00
Amardeep Parmar
Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. See you next time.

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