How JKS Built a Restaurant Empire from Scratch to 1200+ Staff w/ Sunaina Sethi | JKS Restaurants

Sunaina Sethi : 0:00

Obviously, we’ve always known that people are at the heart of everything we do. We need them to own the business really and treat it as their own, so that when people come in, they feel that you know, we can't be in all of the restaurants every single day, obviously, so how do you empower people to be able to do that and to represent you and the business? Looking after people, you know, making them feel like they're in the right place? We've got their back. I think it's about being able to listen to what people are asking for and reacting to it and just being human about it as well you know.

Amardeep Parmar: 

Today's guest is Sunaina Sethii, the co-founder and chief people officer of JKS Restaurants.

Amardeep Parmar: 0:41

You're not going to believe the restaurants in their portfolio Gymkhana, Trishna, Bao Hoppers, Lyle's and so many more. Ambassadors Clubhouse has recently just opened too. They've got restaurants abroad as well. They've got their own products, and it all started from one restaurant and expanded from there. So you're going to learn that story right from the very start of all that scrappiness right at the beginning to now, leading a company with thousands of people working for them and building up that empire that continues to grow. This is a really fun episode and I hope you enjoy it. I'm Amar from the Bae HQ and this podcast is powered by HSBC Innovation Banking. So great to have you here today, and I'm a big fan of many of the restaurants. I actually didn't realise they're all part of one chain for quite a long time, so we're going to dive into that later. But when you were growing up, what did you want to be? Did you ever think one day this is what you'd be doing?

Sunaina Sethi : 1:36

No, to put it bluntly, it's a strange one. So I've got two older brothers. My parents moved over to London in the 70s. Um grew up in uh, you know I wouldn't say a traditional household and that you know it wasn't um, it wasn't a sort of you know, this is what you must do and but just, I think, naturally by osmosis, the feeling was that you know, go into a profession such as the accounting lawyer, you know banker type, and my eldest brother did follow that and became a banker and I sort of always thought, okay, I should think about going into something similar to. I don't think there was ever really one clear thing growing up that I felt okay, my calling, you know, as a kid I was like I really want to be a post woman you know, because I love the postman like yeah, something like that, and I loved like the whole, like organization and you know just being able to feel like you've achieved something.

Sunaina Sethi : 2:37

You know, by great done ticked off and then it was an astronaut for a while, which is just something pretty cool about space. And then I suppose the first more realistic one I explored as a teacher becoming a teacher and I think a lot of it was just around, you know, bringing concepts and things to life and kind of passing on knowledge and things and and and things that excite you to other people. So that was something I toyed with for a little while and, but still in the back of my mind it was okay. Perhaps a more corporate, corporate role would be more accepted and and and would be sort of towing the line a bit more. Um, I studied management with german at university and so we'll make it go to German university. No, so I went to university in Nottingham, yeah, uh, but studied German as part of my degree. Uh, I'd started learning german from age 11 and just fell in love with it, which is an unusual thing for people to say, I think, but it was just something I felt like, I had an affinity for it and had been over on a couple of exchanges and to this day, you know, to my closest friends in the world, of people I met on my German exchanges way back when, sort of 20 years ago, and so I, you know, I carried that through into university and as part of my course you have to spend a year in a German speaking country. So I ended up in Frankfurt.

Sunaina Sethi : 4:09

I worked for HSBC for a while. I felt that it was. You know, the options you have are continuing to study in the country, teaching in the country or working and I thought it was a good opportunity to really, you know, find my calling, as it were, or, you know, try my hand at what. I thought. It was a good opportunity to really, you know, yeah, find my calling, as it were, or, you know, try my hand at what I thought could be a potential career going forward. So hence I ended up. If I started off for a few months in the German private bank and then moved into HSBC, I would have had the most amazing year. It was from all aspects, I think. You know I was only 20 when I moved over, so I think there was a lot of, sort of growing up to do there. But it was a work hard, play hard sort of year which was great, made some, met some amazing people?

Amardeep Parmar: 4:52

Was this pre-financial crisis During 2008?

Sunaina Sethi : 4:55

Yeah, so, but what I very quickly came to realize is that I'm not a banker and my brain is not necessarily wired that way. I don't think I really would have been able to sort of see myself in that position. I mean, this is also remember, this is all in German as well, right, so I'm not sure I could have done it in English, let alone in German. So, but that was a really positive thing for me, you know, it was I felt like I had better to learn that at that stage, right, exactly moved back to uh to finish my final year at university and, once I graduated, thought, okay, perhaps the sort of management consulting route might be more suited to me, um, and I suppose quite a little bit more in line with my degree, et cetera. Uh, and it was.

Sunaina Sethi : 5:43

It was whilst I was in Germany, actually, that we opened Trishna. So my brothers opened Trishna in 2008. And I graduated, and just about 18 months after we'd opened Trishna, and it was at that time that my brothers said to me you know why didn't you help us out? Because the head chef and the general manager who'd opened the site for us, we had no background in hospitality, right. So it was important that when we opened the restaurant, we had people who knew what they were doing to sort of see us through the opening phase and really get us started. And almost at the same time, the head chef and the general manager both moved on and it was at that point that my brother took over in the kitchen, karim took over in the kitchen as the head chef and they said to me well, look, help us out for a bit sort of thing, and I was applying for management consulting roles at the time or grad schemes at the time, but very quickly was like hang on a minute, I feel like this is it, and I felt like I'd found my sort of yeah, I mean as a cliche, but my calling and it was so different to what I had been doing in Germany.

Sunaina Sethi : 6:50

It was much more of a. You know that people focus learning so much on the job with things that you can actually you can make a change there and then and you can see what impact that has almost immediately. You know, as opposed to it being, you're just sort of part of a much bigger machine and the things you do you don't necessarily see you know where the benefits of them are. So I was very, it was very much I mean, I was 23 at the time uh, it was very much. Learn as you go, make mistakes and figure it out uh along the way.

Sunaina Sethi : 7:23

Uh, you know, wine had always been quite a big passion of mine, but I never considered that that would be something I could, um explore professionally. So I uhm sort of did my wine studies whilst trying to run the restaurant as well, learning as we went, we took. A couple of years after Karam and I took over, um, we got our mission. Well, a year after we took over, uh, we got a mission in big bib gourmand and then, a year after that, we got our mission to start, which was something that we never really would have dreamed of to have happened. You know, I mean, obviously it's an aspiration, but you know, I think that was really a sort of like wow, okay, this is, this is serious and when you went into business with your like brothers.

Amardeep Parmar: 8:10

What was your thinking at a time? Because, like I, I love my sisters, but I feel like we'd kill each other if we work together. When you started out, were you like, oh no, I don't want to work with you. Or was it quite natural? Did it feel quite easy at the beginning?

Sunaina Sethi : 8:21

Pass.No, no, no, it's always going to be,

Amardeep Parmar: 8:21

Because I guess obviously it's evolved over time, but right at the start were there any doubts?

Sunaina Sethi : 8:30

Yeah, it was less doubts, it was more sort of finding our way of working together. I remember one of the first times we sat down. So my brother, Joe, was working at Barclays at the time but he was obviously heavily involved in the business and running of the business. So we sat down to have our first sort of meeting, like a manager's meeting or whatever. So we'd have, you know, any anyone in the restaurant management team myself, Karam, joe and then after about five minutes into the meeting, joe just sort of started giggling a little bit and was like shaking his head and I was like what he said never would I have thought I'd be sitting in a business meeting with my siblings, yeah, um. So yeah, I think we.

Sunaina Sethi : 9:11

Of course it's challenging at the beginning because from my side it was trying to find my place in the business that was away from my little sister. Yeah, um, it was, yeah, of course, challenging. You feel like you have to fight that much harder to really kind of be heard. But also I the massive imposter syndrome, right, because you know these. This is the restaurant we've already been running for 18 months, two years or whatever. And then I come in and I'm still figuring it out. So questioning, really am I doing the right thing? Am I the right person to be doing this job? Can I do it? Surely there's someone better out there who could do it, you know.

Sunaina Sethi : 9:51

So there was obviously that little struggle but, you know, ultimately, as we've grown, the positive is that we've really found our roles within the business, definitely at the beginning beginning, more challenging because it's everyone's doing everything and it's a much smaller sort of scope, whereas as you grow there's, you know, you have, you have your area and you, you know, inherently trust the other two in their area. So it's just like we get on with it and when at the point of making decisions, uh, it can get quite heated, but that's okay because you can get to that decision quicker than if you were otherwise in a, you know, in a bored environment or, you know, trying to get buy-in or trying, you know it's you don't. You don't have to tiptoe around in a family scenario, I suppose and obviously with your parents as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 10:42

How are they about this situation? Were they encouraging you to work together, or were they like oh, is this a good idea or not? How is that dynamic there?

Sunaina Sethi : 10:48

Yeah, they've always been really encouraging. I think they you know it's great, Joe's always been the sort of the mediator, the one who's been responsible for us as a way. So I think, from their side, having him sort of pull us together, they had confidence in that and I think they saw that once, you know, we started getting the recognition and the group started growing, you know they were super supportive of it and always have been really uh. So yeah, that we've never had any sort of doubt and they've always been a really solid rock for all of us you mentioned there as well about the growing element of it.

Amardeep Parmar: 11:29

Was that always on the cards, or is it as the success came? Then you, then okay, next one. Or did you have that vision right from the start?

Sunaina Sethi : 11:35

We always knew that it was going to be bigger than just one restaurant, because we went into it thinking that we, you know, there was an opportunity here, particularly with Indian food, to do a lot and to get away from that. You know, that sort of the curry house trend that was existing in the 80s, there was a lot already happening, you know, in the late 90s, 2000s, with, you know, Indian Restaurants coming. You know, coming late 90s, 2000s, with, you know, Indian Restaurants coming, you know, coming on the map, and so we definitely saw a big opportunity. I don't think we ever imagined that the growth would have been or the group would have looked as it does now, but yeah, so that way I feel like it's been quite organic in the way it's grown. So we've seen opportunities and maybe sort of, you know, added a different branch to or, you know, a different arm to what we originally thought that we might do, because, you know, we couldn't really have seen it as being anything but Indian restaurants to start with.

Sunaina Sethi : 12:38

But if you look at it now, you know there's much more diverse than that.

Amardeep Parmar: 12:43

We hope you're enjoying the episode so far. We just want to give a quick shout out to our headline partners, HSBC Innovation Banking. One of the biggest challenges for so many startups is finding the right bank to support them, because you might start off and try to use a traditional bank, but they don't understand what you're doing. You're just talking to an AI assistant or you're talking to somebody who doesn't really understand what it is you've been trying to do. HSBC has got the team they've built out over years to make sure they understand what you're doing. They've got the deep sector expertise and they can help connect you with the right people to make your dreams come true. So if you want to learn more, check out hsbcinnovationbanking.com. You mentioned about the imposter syndrome in those early days as well, and obviously Trishna did very well and continues to do well. How did you overcome that? Where were the things that you think you did really well at Trishna that gave you that confidence to keep going and keep growing?

Sunaina Sethi : 13:32

I don't think I ever have really overcome it, it's still there big time. Recognition is always a big thing, right, and it's almost like validation over the fact that, okay, you question yourself on a lot of things, but then when you do get recognition from okay, of course, body such as michelin and reviews, but also from industry peers as well, that's always sort of reassuring and gives you the confidence to move through it. But I think for me it's also sort of setting out to achieve certain things, and you know my, my role in the, in the group, has sort of transitioned from operations and beverage through to this much more focus on the people side, uh, and you know we're 1200 people now and setting out to really put in place a solid strategy culture. What is it that we want to achieve, what is it that we want to do with our people? And then seeing that through I think is also a real, real sort of, you know, confidence boost.

Amardeep Parmar: 14:40

So we haven't got to it yet, but obviously you've got such a diverse portfolio really. So we haven't got to it yet, but obviously you've got such a diverse portfolio. Can you share what some of the portfolio is now where, if you come back to the present day? Yeah, so I don't want to go like to pay by pay, so let's say, like, where are you at now? Because obviously, like I said, like I've been to so many other restaurants without even realizing that they're all connected and it's a big fan of the food.

Sunaina Sethi : 15:00

Yeah, thank you, um, yeah, so we have. We have sort of a few different branches really, or little clusters, as it were, uh of the group. So our Indian Restaurants which we fully sort of create the concepts and see, see it through and operate, which are Trishna, Jimkhana, Brigadiers and, most recently opened, Ambassadors Clubhouse, um, and we also have above Jim Connor there's 42, which is a cocktail bar, um and uh. Then we have, uh our sort of partners, partnerships, which we have, uh, we've sort of worked with a creative partner or a creative partner and operator uh to to open a restaurant to start with, and then some of those have grown into more than one site.

Sunaina Sethi : 15:45

So we've got Berenjak, which is a Persian concept which is with Kian, so we've got two. We've got one in Borough, one in Soho, also going international with that now in quite a big way. We've got Hoppers, which is with my husband, Karan, and that's a Sri Lankan concept. So we've got three of those with my husband, Karan, and that's the Sri Lankan concept. We've got three of those. We've got Sabor, which is a Spanish restaurant with Nieves. We have Lyle's over in Shoreditch with James Lowe. We've got Kitchen Table with James Knappett and Sandhya Chang, which is a two mission style.

Sunaina Sethi : 16:18

We've got Bibi with Chef Sharma over in Mayfair. We also then have uh two Thai restaurants, um with our partner Luke farrell, so speedboat and plaza um. And then we've got the bow, uh, the bow site. So actually today opening our seventh branch in the city and that's with uh whiting, her brother Shing, and Shing's wife, uh Urchin um. And we also have um three pubs. So we've Dom Jacob's, Our Jacob's, our partner there. So we've got uh the Cadogan down in the King's Road. We've got the George over in Fitzrovia and most recently opened a couple of months ago, the Hound in Chiswick. Yeah, I really hope I haven't forgotten it.

Amardeep Parmar: 16:58

But I say yes, like it must be really hard to remember. It's like because I'm thinking about for the audience they're probably listening to this like wow, like what.

Sunaina Sethi : 17:05

Like yeah.

Amardeep Parmar: 17:07

And are you allowed to have you got a favorite child or you're not allowed to say, like, what's your favorite place to eat yourself?

Sunaina Sethi : 17:13

Everyone's always got a favorite child, right? No, I think, in terms of a site, a restaurant, obviously Trish and Lish. Enough for me. It's where we started.

Sunaina Sethi : 17:26

It's where I spent a hell of a lot of time and it's where we figured out a lot of what we're doing, made a lot of our mistakes. Um, and you know, I met my husband there. We ended up having a registry wedding there and so it holds really sort of um, it's got a really special place in my heart and I know, and for a lot of us as well. But, um, really, in terms of where to eat, it does change quite often. Yeah, um, yeah, I mean Trishna for me, the warmth and the hospitality you get there, it really feels like a family. Is that a great neighborhood vibe? But, um, you know obviously been eating ambassadors a lot more recently since it just opened again.

Sunaina Sethi : 18:01

You know, brilliant, last year I think I was at speedboat once a week. Yeah, so it just really depends upon where. You know, Bibi, for example, is what you know, one of my favorite places to go to sit on the counter. Uh and uh, just be looked after and, and you know, watching, watching them do their thing is also brilliant. That's gonna be one of the best things.

Amardeep Parmar: 18:23

I guess about what you do is just, you know you have like this whole different options for great restaurants and then all right, I'm guessing you don't have to queue when you go there. You probably, probably, obviously do it out of just respect, but you're probably like can you just slip me some?

Amardeep Parmar: 18:35

Food sometimes yeah and so obviously there's expanding in different directions in different places and you said there's 1200, 200 people now right, and what made you decide to move away from that initial ops position you had with that role to now really focus on the people? What made you go down that path?

Sunaina Sethi : 18:53

Bring the professionals in to do it right. I mean, like I said, everything I know from running restaurants has just been from doing it's not like. And that goes for Karam, joe and I, the three of us, you know it's all we know is what we have, and so I think it's really important sometimes to to bring people who have experience in other, you know, with other businesses to to sort of really take the reins, um, and help guide us. And you know, we can go through that together. We make decisions, challenge the way that we do things as well, to make sure that you know we are doing what's right for the business.

Sunaina Sethi : 19:32

Um, I think I've also coincided with a sort of family too. So it was, uh, I had my first child in 2018. So it was at that point that, um, you know, I sort of stepped away from the operations because, you know, being out of the business it's uh, it had to be that way and, um, we needed that continuity. So, you know, I'm always we'll always have an opinion, always be able to sort of um, talk to that side of things. But really, in the position that we have, that you know all of us have, it's the overarching business, so you're always going to have a say in those things. But even the people function.

Sunaina Sethi : 20:11

For example, it's always been under my remit, but in the sense that when we weren't as big it could be along with other things, whereas as we've gotten to this point now, it just it needs 100% of my time, um, so that also naturally has transitioned that way well, I guess, looking at there as well, it's obviously you had different roles within ops, but people was the one that you decided.

Amardeep Parmar: 20:35

That's one that I really care about. So what do you think you've done in the people sense that has made the restaurants as successful as they have been and to have that experience that people have when they go to one of your restaurants?

Sunaina Sethi : 20:46

I mean, I think the key thing that we've really learned in the last since COVID really is, obviously, we've always known that people are at the heart of everything we do. We need them to own the business really and treat it as their own so that when people come in they feel that you know, we can't be in all of the restaurants every single day, obviously, so how do you empower people to be able to do that and to represent you and the business? And it is that really, it's giving them ownership, but it's, I suppose, looking after people, you know, making them feel like they're in the right place and that we've got their back. I think COVID was a good telling point really as to how you treat people when times are really tough, and so, yeah, I think it's about being able to listen to what people are asking for and reacting to it and just being human about it as well.

Sunaina Sethi : 21:44

You know, I think one of the challenges that I feel I have in my position is it's quite I don't know if it's rare, but it's it's a it's a tricky spot to be a co-founder and the sort of the the people lead, because you know, quite there's sometimes a bit of a conflict. You're running a business and if you don't have the people strategy at the core of it, it's not a revenue maker right.

Sunaina Sethi : 22:15

So how to get that balance is always a challenge, but I think arguably it's most important to have someone senior in that role who has the best interest of the business at heart, but also you're trying to make it commercially viable too. So getting that balance is always, and will continue to be, a challenge, but I think, with the right intentions, we all know what we're trying to achieve in terms of just creating really consistently good experiences in our restaurants. Excellent, not good.

Amardeep Parmar: 22:47

So you mentioned about COVID there, obviously, and that was such a tough time for so many restaurants and so many people in the hospitality industry. How was that for you? Can you describe that experience of hearing okay, we're gonna have a lockdown now what we're going to do, and just talk us through that.

Sunaina Sethi : 23:02

PTSD. Yeah, it was big. I mean, as with everybody, right, I think it's a huge sort of wake up call, but also just a self-reflection point too. I think for us, the challenge that we faced immediately from as most operators will have as well is that we weren't told to shut, but Boris Johnson said to everybody don't go out and don't go to restaurants. So you're kind of in this weird limbo of wait, but people aren't coming, but we're told not to shut.

Sunaina Sethi : 23:38

So you know what do we do, and at that point we had about 750 staff. So, but then then, of course, a few days later, then everything shuts down and you literally overnight go from zero revenue and you've got 750 people who are looking at, looking to you as okay, well, what are we going to do? What can you do? What do we do, like, how do we pay our rent? How do we? You know? So lots of questions. Um, there were a lot of, you know, all nighters of trying to figure things out and making sure that we're communicating out to everybody. How can we support you explaining things to people as well, you know, because it wasn't, it wasn't easy to understand what was happening and how they were going to be supported. So there was a lot of, a lot of time spent on making sure that we were communicating well, to the extent that on a number of occasions, I was sending individual emails to all 750 employees, right.

Amardeep Parmar: 24:33

Right.

Sunaina Sethi : 24:34

With specific examples of how they looked after, what that means for their pay, what that means for anything specific to them. So I think that for us was obviously really important to make sure that people felt secure. From a business side, it was, um, of course, a bit of a wake-up call, because you realize that all of your business revolves around and relies on people sitting on seats in your restaurants and spending money. And you know, as, as with so many people, it was just okay, right, let's hustle. What do we need to do? Switch on delivery, takeaway, do the cook at home boxes, you know, retail, whatever it is, um, to just sort of, you know, keep moving. There was no time to sort of sit still and be like, okay, well, let's just see what happens. You know it was really important that we just just got our heads together and said, okay, what, what are we doing? So it was a yeah, it was a different time

Amardeep Parmar: 25:29

But even in normal times the restaurant industry is one of the hardest right, because in London you see yourself in a restaurant, starts up, it's a new thing for a little while and then it dies down quite after that. But you've been able to have this longevity and have you got any secrets, or how do you think you've been able to do that, that maybe sell other people with a hot thing for a little bit, but not been able to maintain that?

Sunaina Sethi : 25:52

Yeah, it's a good question.

Sunaina Sethi : 25:53

I think, again, one of the things which I think we've learned and maybe this is off the back of, uh, seeing how quickly things, can you know, can not to not continue going well is the ability to react and not being scared to change things.

Sunaina Sethi : 26:18

I think there always needs to be this constant sort of review of what we see as status quo and challenge it and say, okay, but this might feel uncomfortable or this might feel like it works, so let's just carry on like that and I'll just continue on. But actually it's the challenging of it that you know keeps you relevant and it's the challenging of it that I think ends up in with you being in a more resilient business and, um, that ability to sort of pivot and make decisions and perhaps, you know, make a decision that might not feel comfortable and might feel like it might be quite disruptive to to what status quo is, but, um, you know it's it's really important and super necessary to to remain relevant and to keep a commercially viable business as well.  

Amardeep Parmar: 27:15

Have you got any examples of that where you made a pivot that you were a bit worried about you weren't sure whether it was going to be put off or not, and what happened?

Sunaina Sethi : 27:19

Yeah, uh, lots. Um, I think one of the ones that we, you know, earlier last year there was an opportunity for us to open a restaurant, and I'm going to keep it quite vague.

Sunaina Sethi : 27:37

But, there was an opportunity and we said, okay, let's do it. We started building and we were having a lot of conversations about what is what is it? It was quite niche in terms of, uh, of the concept, uh, but we were kind of going ahead with it and we were only about six or seven weeks off opening it and we had a very open conversation as to is this the right thing to do? Do we think this really is going to be working? And the answer was no, because we thought, yes, the concept is great.

Sunaina Sethi : 28:13

The area we were looking to open up it was perhaps not the right place to be opening quite a niche concept. And when we sort of played it out further down the line, it was okay, we'll probably have to dilute this a little bit, or we'll probably have to dilute this a little bit, or we'll probably have to sort of, you know, change what the original offering was in order to fit in with where we are. And we don't want to do that, and the time and the resource that's going to end up in, you know, trying to make it work ultimately is going to take us away from, you know, the other parts of the business. So we pulled it. We didn't do it, and that was, you know, quite far down the line. So a very difficult decision to make at the point where you could just be like, well, you know, we're this far in now, so let's just do it and we'll fix it afterwards. But actually it was the right thing to do. So that's one, but I think probably on a daily basis. There are examples of that.

Amardeep Parmar: 29:08

So you mentioned that the ambassadors clubhouse is one that open Ambassadors Club opened recently. What was the concept behind that and what made you open that restaurant?

Sunaina Sethi : 29:16

So uh or yeah as well.

Sunaina Sethi : 29:19

So Brigadiers is based on our paternal grandfather who was a Brigadier in the Gurkhas, and ambassadors is based on our maternal grandfather who was in the Foreign Service and was an ambassador to India various different places and was also sort of quite heavily involved when we're looking at dividing up Punjab and throughout that time of India's History, and so it's kind of an ode to him and it's generous, I suppose, as in line with you know, with its heritage as well, sort of what we're trying to do there is really bring, as with a lot of our restaurants, right is, there's region, regionality. So I think that's what we're really doing with Indian Food as well. If you look at Trishna, there's that focus on the southwest coast of India and it's not just opening a generic Indian Restaurant. We want to, you know, focus on, you know, cooking techniques and methods and equipment etc. And regions and areas and spices, you know to to a way of not um of remaining authentic with it, but um being able to educate people a little bit as well as to sort of what, what comes from there, and it's the sort of theme that we've really gone through with as we've opened restaurants along the way is that, yes, food is always going to be at the heart of everything we do, and in the early days I think that was everything.

Sunaina Sethi : 30:50

Yeah, the food has to be good enough, and then everything else is fine, whatever. But then, as we've obviously grown, it's like, well, why should we compromise on everything else? What about the drinks? What about the service? What about the ambience? What about? You know all the rest of it. So we've really, I think you know, ambassadors is a really good example of that, and you know, I think, all of our restaurants, hopefully now as well uh, but you know, it's the food, it's a drink, it's the music, uh, and, and the whole offering, and that whole experience as one.

Amardeep Parmar: 31:15

So you know the ideations to phase of this right. I guess it was once like that, so my dad always wanted to open a restaurant when I was a kid, right, and he would always talk about it. We never actually did it and then now it's not possible, but basically it's like coming up with that idea. It must be really fun, I guess, but then you've also got to work out, I said, the commercial viability of it. Is this the right thing? And how do you go about the process? It always, you just always have random ideas that you then come together and discuss. Or is it okay, this phase the business out? Okay, we need to come up with another idea. Or this site looks good. How do you go about that? Deciding when to expand?

Sunaina Sethi : 31:49

All of these ideas on the Indian side are born in Karam, my brother's head, and he's probably got about 50 on the go at once. Uh, you know he's highly creative and is always thinking about, you know, different things that we could, we could do and concepts that we can create. Um with Gymkhana is something that you know. When we had that was the second Indian third restaurant we opened. Second Indian Restaurant we opened back in 2013,. You know, inspired by a lot of our family visits to India to see grandparents, and I think that was probably sort of manifesting in his head for a long, long time before it really came to light. And, you know, looking at sites and then being able to see how these concepts can come, you know, come to life within those spaces.

Sunaina Sethi : 32:35

We're obviously now in a position where we have brands that do lend themselves to scale as well. So it's we're in that phase of, you know, ambassadors, of course, was a new concept, but we have other uh other brands Berenjak, Hoppers, Bow, the Thai Restaurants and that are uh can definitely. You know, we want to open more sites, we want to open more of them across London, internationally, etc. So that's really it is about finding sites, what's available, and then how we can make those commercially viable and, you know, will they work there. So there's a whole feasibility that would go through to see, you know, is it possible? But from the actual concept, uh, creation side, uh, yeah, karem is, is is just like his mind is completely overflowing with, with different concepts that he wants to create, and then I suppose it's all of our jobs around him to really bring it to life and execute it and make sure that it's you know, everything that it's meant to be can be delivered in a commercially viable way.

Amardeep Parmar: 33:42

And you mentioned that international expansion there as well. How are you thinking about it in the future? Can you give us any hints of what could be coming?

Sunaina Sethi : 33:48

Yeah, so we've already got in the Middle East a couple of franchises. So we've got we know, we've taken Hoppers, Gymkhana and Berenjak there already. We are continuing to look there. We're also, you know, continuing to look in the States too. So for us it's really important that the opportunity is right, the time is right. We don't want to sort of, uh, you know, just for the sake of it, open a site elsewhere, Uh, but we know that there's. There are huge opportunities for us, Um, you know, particularly in cities like in.

Sunaina Sethi : 34:20

New York and Dubai, uh, and others. And you know, we do get approached by people who maybe want to bring one of our brands, you know, to wherever big cities around the world, and it's yeah, it's having conversations, understanding it and just making sure that it's right for the brands and that we wouldn't be compromising on, you know, on those brand values or the offerings.

Amardeep Parmar: 34:46

What's most exciting for you at the moment? Because obviously there's been so much expansion. You've done different things. You're now in the more people aspect. What, what do you look forward to? What's the things that are most exciting for you?

Sunaina Sethi : 34:57

No one's asking that for actually, um, for me, I think we're a really nice phase of. You know, a lot of our brands are quite mature now, in that you know they've been operating for a while. I mean, Trishna is 16 years old, you know. So it's lovely to see it sort of really continue to go from strength to strength, and so seeing stability in some of the brands is really great. And then you see how, what you can really do you know around it, they're obviously going to be the brands that are in sort of growth mode and how those can.

Sunaina Sethi : 35:34

How do we translate those into you know other territories? How do we translate those into, uh, you know other parts of london, etc. Which I think is that's really exciting too. So I think it's nice to have a mix of those that are sort of stable and you know, uncomfortable, versus you know the ones that are really sort of taking off. I think there's so much that we can still do on the people's side as well in terms of how do we look after people. Loads and loads of ideas as to how we can do things, obviously this new, new sort of ai addition and tech and everything else, which is something I feel we've always been, um, you know, kind of chasing our tails on a little bit, but hopefully to be able to get into a position where, uh, you know, we can really utilize a lot of this, a lot of this like new wave of tech that's coming through to just make us better and, to, you know, to utilize it to, to, just, you know, just kind of bolt us into the, into the current um tech generation.

Amardeep Parmar: 36:39

I guess, so you can so get to hear your story and, like I said, I'm a big fan of the restaurant myself. We have to go to quick fire questions now with the time, so. So first one is who are three British Asians you think are doing incredible work and you'd love to shout them out?

Sunaina Sethi : 36:53

First one, but it's kind of a couple, Sanjeev Bhaskar and Meera Syal. I, you know they've been always been quite a big part of, I think, any British Indians growing up with you know, goodness gracious me commands at 42, etc. And have been fortunate enough also to sort of spend a bit of time throughout with you know, with them. I share a birthday with Cindy, which is great, uh, and so, you know, we get a little message uh on the on on the birthdays, which is nice, and I just think they're fantastic and I think to you know, to see what they're doing, um, you know, in that space and it's, it's really like the education that they bring to it as well on all things from, you know, culinary side, for travel side to you know, or cultural side, I think is is is really special and they're just lovely people too, uh.

Sunaina Sethi : 37:43

And then I'll say Raj Khaira. She I know her sort of from a distance, but was put in touch with her by a mutual friend quite a while ago now when she did the book on the South Asian superhero superwoman, which was great, and what she's doing now as well, and like really taking off with the whole you know, gen AI stuff, and I think that's really, uh, great role model for for a lot of young, you know, British, Indian, um women and girls, looking at where they can go and what they can achieve, especially now. I think, um, it's really inspirational and she's a bit of a force. So, yeah, I think that's great.

Sunaina Sethi : 38:29

And then, um, a third one would be a close friend of mine, Sabrina Gidda. Um, she is a trained chef, but I think, more than more than anything, the reason why I say her is because she's just, she's just a great support for women, asian women, in positions where you just to be able to like, shoot the breeze and chat and get ideas and just spitball and, you know, come up with things, make you feel better about things. It's like therapy, you know, but a bit of a village of people they surround themselves with to sort of achieve you know what they want to achieve and to make them feel confident in that. And for me, Sabrina is one of those people.

Amardeep Parmar: 39:17

Nice. And then, if people want to find out more about you and your restaurants, where should they go to?

Sunaina Sethi : 39:21

So we are JKS Restaurants. Yeah, instagram JKS Restaurants website, JKS  Restaurants LinkedIn, whatever it is. Uh, I am Sunaina Sethi, uhm. Similar Sunaina Sethi Instagram handle. Uhm, I'm not very good at that, sorry, but uhm, you can find me there

Amardeep Parmar: 39:35

Is anything that you need help with right now or that JKS needs help with, that, the audience could help you?

Sunaina Sethi : 39:44

I mean, you know, we're not only within hospitality but we love having conversations around other people in similar positions with you know. From a business point of view, from an entrepreneur's point of view, I think it's always hugely beneficial to have conversations and, you know, share best practice. But also, you know, for us, like I said, everything we know in hospitality is from what we've done, but to really be able to speak to people also outside of the industry, it's great to be able to challenge the way that we do things by speaking to those who have maybe gone through similar phases of growth, similar phases of their businesses and operating them.

Amardeep Parmar: 40:25

So thank you so much for coming on today. Any final words?

Sunaina Sethi : 40:28

Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure and, yeah, looking forward to hearing more from everything you guys are doing as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 40:36

Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. See you next time.

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